12-13 rule changes

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by tref

I'm aware of the reason why they changed it, but personally, I have no problem communicating with coaches after a foul call.

You don't. I don't. Lots of experienced officials don't have any problems explaining a call to a coach.

But you have to remember that more than half of the scholastic level games played (HS and below) are sub-varsity games. And these games are often officiated by inexperienced officials and coached by inexperienced coaches. When a bang-bang occurs and you then put an inexperienced, possibly rattled, official directly in front of an inexperienced, possibly explosive, coach. . .

Just send him/her opposite.

There's also another reason for NOT making the calling official the new Trail. Where do most of the foul calls come from? The Lead official. If that official then goes to new Trail, where will that official be during the next possession? In the new Lead position -- where we just said most of the foul calls come from. So you could put an official in position where s/he will be the primary official for 3 or 4 or 5 foul calls in a row in certain game situations.

Just send him/her opposite and let somebody else become the new Lead on the next possession. (Or send him/her tableside, but change the mechanics so that the tableside official is the C for free throws.)

[tref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I don't care either way. I don't see why we need to be communicating with coaches after every foul call.

I agree, but during the course of the game when those few questionable calls happen, it would be nice to have the calling official right there for clarification.

I know coaches are tired of hearing me say, "ask the calling official."


Had a game between a team from Utah & Minnesota yesterday. We went tableside on purpose, as our crew had no credibility with either team & we thought it would be good for communication purposes.
When the Minnesota coach wanted to talk after every whistle or non-whistle, we told him to pick his spots. Obviously he never understood what we meant (summer coaches ) so we simply put him on ignore.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

You don't. I don't. Lots of experienced officials don't have any problems explaining a call to a coach.

But you have to remember that more than half of the scholastic level games played (HS and below) are sub-varsity games. And these games are often officiated by inexperienced officials and coached by inexperienced coaches. When a bang-bang occurs and you then put an inexperienced, possibly rattled, official directly in front of an inexperienced, possibly explosive, coach. . .

Yeah that makes sense for the HS level... I guess we dont know how to end the conversation before the final FT is administered in NCAA-M.

[amusedofficial]

Trouble with being table side after a foul call is you are then ripe for the stage whispers where some high school coach who thinks he's the next Alex Hannum speaks to an assistant in a voice intentionally loud enough for you to hear and thinks he's immune from getting wacked since he's "not talking to you" so when you do hit the T he goes into "shocked look of disbelief/wha-did-I-do" mode, designed to show you up, so then you gotta decide whether it's enough for T #2 which means a suspension in some states. Best to just stay away, this isn't a debating society or a roundtable chat. If he asks a public "where'd you get that" you can give a quick answer and trot opposite after reporting. The day I voluntarily put myself at a coach's disposal to promote my credibility is the day I start working lacrosse, which as everyone knows was invented to give kids who can't hit a curveball something to do.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I don't care either way. I don't see why we need to be communicating with coaches after every foul call.

Actually we have been doing this for years in college going opposite table so now this is really an aesthetic choice as far as I am concerned. I was happy at first to go table side, but found it kind of silly at times as all coaches did is want to discuss a foul.

Peace

[Toren]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually we have been doing this for years in college going opposite table so now this is really an aesthetic choice as far as I am concerned. I was happy at first to go table side, but found it kind of silly at times as all coaches did is want to discuss a foul.

Peace

This is only college men's correct?

I believe college women's goes table side.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Toren

This is only college men's correct?

I believe college women's goes table side.

NCAA-W still go tableside.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Toren

This is only college men's correct?

I believe college women's goes table side.

Correct, womens calling officials go tableside & the calling official becomes the tableside T on FTs in the League as well.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by amusedofficial

Trouble with being table side after a foul call is you are then ripe for the stage whispers where some high school coach who thinks he's the next Alex Hannum speaks to an assistant in a voice intentionally loud enough for you to hear and thinks he's immune from getting wacked since he's "not talking to you" so when you do hit the T he goes into "shocked look of disbelief/wha-did-I-do" mode, designed to show you up, so then you gotta decide whether it's enough for T #2 which means a suspension in some states. Best to just stay away, this isn't a debating society or a roundtable chat. If he asks a public "where'd you get that" you can give a quick answer and trot opposite after reporting. The day I voluntarily put myself at a coach's disposal to promote my credibility is the day I start working lacrosse, which as everyone knows was invented to give kids who can't hit a curveball something to do.

Going tableside doesn't mean you have to stand that close to the coach...if it's a contentious call, then move 10 feet out onto the court and stand away from them while the free throws are being shot. If not shooting free throws, get the ball back in play quick and coach can't keep talking...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Toren

This is only college men's correct?

I believe college women's goes table side.

Yes men's basketball. I do not work women's college so I would not be referencing what they do over there.

Peace

[tref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Going tableside doesn't mean you have to stand that close to the coach...if it's a contentious call, then move 10 feet out onto the court and stand away from them while the free throws are being shot. If not shooting free throws, get the ball back in play quick and coach can't keep talking...

+1

I wouldnt have a tough block/charge call & go stand right beside the offending teams coach.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yes men's basketball. I do not work women's college so I would not be referencing what they do over there.

Peace

Just clarifying for any new members that didn't know the difference and didn't know that JRut does college men's only

[Toren]

Originally Posted by tref

+1

I wouldnt have a tough block/charge call & go stand right beside the offending teams coach.

You sure?

[tref]

Originally Posted by Toren

You sure?

When reporting I can usually tell if they want to talk to me or not. If they do, then tough call or not, I'll tell them what I saw. They deserve that much.
If not, then I'll stand away & let them have the last word if they want to make comments/statement as opposed to asking what I saw.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Toren

Just clarifying for any new members that didn't know the difference and didn't know that JRut does college men's only

And if you have to clarify that to newer members (what side I work or that there is a difference) then they are not smart enough to do any college in the first place honestly. All you have to do is watch a game and you will tell there are differences. My point was it was not a big deal from my standpoint as it was not a major issue at the college level, I think the average official can be alright not going table side in HS.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tref

When reporting I can usually tell if they want to talk to me or not. If they do, then tough call or not, I'll tell them what I saw. They deserve that much.
If not, then I'll stand away & let them have the last word if they want to make comments/statement as opposed to asking what I saw.

Why do they deserve any explanation? You may want to give it to them, but that does not mean they deserve an explanation. And considering that everyone at the HS level clearly does not do 3 Person mechanics for every game like we pretty much do in my area or state, what do you do when you have no mechanics that makes you available? I get that is you have a good coach and they ask a question and you happened to be there, but it is not our job to give them any explanation as they often do not accept what we say to them anyway.

Peace