2 or a 3

[geoff.mayfield]

Using NFHS Rules, what happens in this scenario:

A1 attempts an alley-oop bounce pass to A2. Both A1 and the bounce (of the bounce pass) are behind Team A’s three point line. A2 ignores the pass and the pass goes into the goal. (There is no contact with the ball and any player between the bounce and the goal). Is this a 2 point goal or a 3 point goal?

I ask because Rule 5-2-1 has two sentences which appear to be in potential conflict.

5-2-1 says that a “Try, Tap or Thrown ball” from behind the team’s own 3 point line shall count as 3 points.

In the above scenario, the goal was not scored from the result of a “try” because the ball struck the floor, ending the try (See 4-41-4). The goal was not scored as a “tap” because the intent was to pass, not to direct the ball into the bucket. (See 4-41-5). (yes, there is judgment here, but assume that judgment is solid)

Thus, the only theory that could support the goal being a three point goal would be the “thrown ball” theory in Rule 5-2-1. (unfortunately “Thrown Ball” is not defined.)

However, the second sentence of 5-2-1 says that a ball that “...touches the floor...” shall count as 2 points.

In the above scenario, we have a “thrown ball” and a ball that “touches the floor” prior to entering the goal.

Thus, which sentence controls the character of the goal in the above scenario: (1) the sentence that indicates that a “thrown ball” counts as three; or (2) the sentence that indicates that a ball that “touches the floor” counts as two?

[JRutledge]

This would be a two. This would only be considered a 3 if the ball was thrown from the air. The fact that it hit the floor takes away the possibility for this being ruled a 3. This is not quite a "thrown ball" as the ball was not thrown and happened to just go in the basket based on an arrant pass. This is also based on some interpretation as well. Interpretation really dictates this issue, not just the confusion in the wording.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by geoff.mayfield

Using NFHS Rules, what happens in this scenario:

A1 attempts an alley-oop bounce pass to A2. Both A1 and the bounce (of the bounce pass) are behind Team A’s three point line. A2 ignores the pass and the pass goes into the goal. (There is no contact with the ball and any player between the bounce and the goal). Is this a 2 point goal or a 3 point goal?

I ask because Rule 5-2-1 has two sentences which appear to be in potential conflict.

5-2-1 says that a “Try, Tap or Thrown ball” from behind the team’s own 3 point line shall count as 3 points.

In the above scenario, the goal was not scored from the result of a “try” because the ball struck the floor, ending the try (See 4-41-4). The goal was not scored as a “tap” because the intent was to pass, not to direct the ball into the bucket. (See 4-41-5). (yes, there is judgment here, but assume that judgment is solid)

Thus, the only theory that could support the goal being a three point goal would be the “thrown ball” theory in Rule 5-2-1. (unfortunately “Thrown Ball” is not defined.)

...

Think of a thrown ball as an errant pass (alley oop; baseball pass from backcourt, etc) that we would not judge as a try.

Now my question would be, say we have one of those errant baseball passes to a post player who gets held by the defender and we put a whistle on it and the ball goes in the basket. How do we adjudicate the foul?

[Adam]

Let's just say I'd kick myself for not having a more patient whistle. If it was an offensive foul, however....

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Think of a thrown ball as an errant pass (alley oop; baseball pass from backcourt, etc) that we would not judge as a try.

Now my question would be, say we have one of those errant baseball passes to a post player who gets held by the defender and we put a whistle on it and the ball goes in the basket. How do we adjudicate the foul?

Same way you would any other situation where a shooter shoots, the ball goes in, and while it was airborne, there was a foul on another player.

[tref]

I think he means the passer/"shooter" gets fouled on the pass/shot.

[just another ref]

Under NFHS, or any other rule set, the OP situation is impossible.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

I think he means the passer/"shooter" gets fouled on the pass/shot.

No, he is right, I mean the intended recepient of a "thrown ball" (full court baseball pass; alley oop). If we are initially judging the "thrown ball" as not being a shot how do we adjudicate the following situations if foul occurs while ball is airborne:

• Intended target A2 pushes B2 and thrown ball hits rim
• Intended target A2 pushes B2 and thrown ball enters basket
• B2 fouls intended target A2 and thrown ball enters basket

But yes, let's add in A1 getting fouled while throwing the pass and it 1) enters the basket or 2) hits the rim.

[tref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

No, he is right, I mean the intended recepient of a "thrown ball" (full court baseball pass; alley oop). If we are initially judging the "thrown ball" as not being a shot how do we adjudicate the following situations if foul occurs while ball is airborne:

• Intended target A2 pushes B2 and thrown ball hits rim
• Intended target A2 pushes B2 and thrown ball enters basket
• B2 fouls intended target A2 and thrown ball enters basket

But yes, let's add in A1 getting fouled while throwing the pass and it 1) enters the basket or 2) hits the rim.

My badd, I read it wrong.

In all situations I guess the first thing would be to determine if it was a shot or pass. The calling official on the intended receiver plays is definitely going to need some help.
The calling official on passer plays has got some explaining to do as well.
If its not an end of quarter situation, that definitely helps draw conclusions.