Originally Posted by Toren (Post 837326)

Great explanation.

I think the non-calling official had a terrible view of the play, it looked like he got caught moving toward the endline, then couldn't see the play at all, so instead of guessing he didn't have a whistle. I didn't mind the play at all, he didn't see it, so we don't guess.

I did mind his body language.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 837325)

Under NFHS and NCAA rules, this is a clear violation.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 837325)

It is not so under NBA rules. The defense bats the ball away...thus that ends team control. Turiaf then tries to control the ball..the first initial push to the floor could be considered control...thus he had a positive position in the frontcourt with the ball and the subsequent actions would constitute a backcourt violation.

If the calling official did not believe that constituted control, when Turiaf gains control of the ball, he's in the air...he has not attained a positive position with the ball. His right foot lands in the front, and his left foot appears as though it might have landed on the midcourt line. This would mean he attained a positive position with the ball in the backcourt...which in this case would be legal.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 837327)

If you notice, the trail official had a less than advantageous position because the lead starts a rotating to the opposite side...but the ball gets swung to the wing table side and the lead stops his rotation and he's back. The trail was in the process of rotating to the new slot/center position when the deflection occurred.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 837327)

I still think he ended up getting a decent enough look...and the slot/center official helped out on the play as well and had nothing as well.

Originally Posted by Toren (Post 837331)

Agreed



I think his body language suggests that he was straining to see the play. Also if you notice in the initial live play, right before it cuts, he starts to make a motion like the ball got tipped. It's extremely hard to see and I had to rewind it several times to make it out, not sure why he did that mechanic.

I thought the no call, no guess, is the correct call. The C definitely had the better look and was helping.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 837325)

The play in question:

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/KP-UJiPxKTM" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>

Under NFHS and NCAA rules, this is a clear violation. It is not so under NBA rules. The defense bats the ball away...thus that ends team control. Turiaf then tries to control the ball..the first initial push to the floor could be considered control...thus he had a positive position in the frontcourt with the ball and the subsequent actions would constitute a backcourt violation.

If the calling official did not believe that constituted control, when Turiaf gains control of the ball, he's in the air...he has not attained a positive position with the ball. His right foot lands in the front, and his left foot appears as though it might have landed on the midcourt line. This would mean he attained a positive position with the ball in the backcourt...which in this case would be legal.

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 837335)

Stop.......put down the telecaster! it's backcourt

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 837335)

Stop.......put down the telecaster! it's backcourt

And by the way, thanks for posting all these videos, well done, terrific discussion pieces

Originally Posted by btaylor64 (Post 837363)

What APG said is right, but one thing he forgot involving positive position is that we allow for momentum... We don't expect a player to gather the ball at the last second and then stop on a dime just for backcourt purposes. If he re-gathers after the deflection but his momentum carries him into the backcourt that is a legal play under NBA rules.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 837375)

#1, who is this "we" you speak of? Are you an NBA official?

#2, where can this "momentum rule" be found?

#2, so if this same play happens and he steps OOB instead of backcourt, the "momentum rule" allows his team to keep the ball?

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 837375)

#1, who is this "we" you speak of? Are you an NBA official?

#2, where can this "momentum rule" be found?

#2, so if this same play happens and he steps OOB instead of backcourt, the "momentum rule" allows his team to keep the ball?

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 837327)

If you notice, the trail official had a less than advantageous position because the lead starts a rotating to the opposite side...but the ball gets swung to the wing table side and the lead stops his rotation and he's back. The trail was in the process of rotating to the new slot/center position when the deflection occurred. I still think he ended up getting a decent enough look...and the slot/center official helped out on the play as well and had nothing as well.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 837394)

Thanks for posting the video. And first thing I thought when viewing is that this play was not some cut-n-dry backcourt as was first presented. I had no idea about the momentum aspect of the BC rule but I knew TC rules are different.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 837379)

Btaylor is an NBA D-League official and has worked NBA games as of this year.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 837393)

He's been in the D-League for a little while now and he has worked NBA games this season.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 837379)

And when he talks about momentum, it only deals with backcourt calls and only in specific situations...when the ball is loose (as in no team control), from a jump ball, a throw-in in the final two minutes of the 4th/OT, or a defensive player.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 837404)

Who are you guys, his press secretaries? He can't answer his own questions?



Great. Again, rule reference please.

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 837324)

My son tells me ESPN's NOT Top Ten today had Lebron taking six steps from the top of the key before getting fouled....said he carried the ball like a football. Haven't found THAT video yet. But, I'm a lookin! ;)