Camp Feedback - Page 3

Mark Dexter · #31 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 23, 2003, 08:09pm

Quote:

Originally posted by whistleone

11) If it's a flop, the head goes back first. If it's a charge, the head goes forward.

Interesting - it's physically correct (in a good deal of cases), but might be hard to distinguish in a "bang-bang" play . . .

rainmaker · #32 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 24, 2003, 12:26am

Quote:

Originally posted by whistleone
11) If it's a flop, the head goes back first. If it's a charge, the head goes forward.

Interesting!! I'm definitely going to watch for this, and see what I think...

JRutledge · #33 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 24, 2003, 01:11am

is look at the feet. If the feet stay in the same place, it is usually a flop. If the feet move and the player goes backwards, it is charge.

I never heard of the head movement before, I might have to pay more attention to that in the future.

Peace

Isaak · #34 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 02:00am

Just a matter of interest - when you guys are quoting rules which rulebooks are you using ... FIBA or some USA college/highschool...or whatever other interpretations you have over there?!?!

JRutledge · #35 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 08:21am

Quote:

Originally posted by Isaak
Just a matter of interest - when you guys are quoting rules which rulebooks are you using ... FIBA or some USA college/highschool...or whatever other interpretations you have over there?!?!

You know about 95 percent of us are HS Officials, so when we talk about rules and camps, we are only refering to National Federation Rules. Ya know, none of us are previledged enough to attend NCAA driven camps.

Peace

Dan_ref · #36 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 08:58am

Geeze....what a mess.

Anyway, this thread includes 2 new ways (new to me at least) of determining a flop and now I'm left wondering why it's a good idea to watch a defenders feet or head when we should be looking for body contact.

JRutledge · #37 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 09:47am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Geeze....what a mess.

Anyway, this thread includes 2 new ways (new to me at least) of determining a flop and now I'm left wondering why it's a good idea to watch a defenders feet or head when we should be looking for body contact.

Of course you are looking at body contact, but it is always good to look at other markers to help make your calls more consistant and obvious.

Peace

rainmaker · #38 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 10:34am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Geeze....what a mess.

Anyway, this thread includes 2 new ways (new to me at least) of determining a flop and now I'm left wondering why it's a good idea to watch a defenders feet or head when we should be looking for body contact.

I don't know, Dan, I think it would be possible to watch for contact, and also watch the defender's head. The feet are more tricky, and I think less telling. But the head could be a great indicator of what's happening in the defender's brain. I do think that this shouldn't be the only measure, though. A kid may start to flop, but then get bowled over. In that case, if the defender is actually moving backward (to flop), and he or she still takes enough contact, I'd call the PC.

Dan_ref · #39 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 11:35am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Geeze....what a mess.

Anyway, this thread includes 2 new ways (new to me at least) of determining a flop and now I'm left wondering why it's a good idea to watch a defenders feet or head when we should be looking for body contact.

I don't know, Dan, I think it would be possible to watch for contact, and also watch the defender's head. The feet are more tricky, and I think less telling. But the head could be a great indicator of what's happening in the defender's brain. I do think that this shouldn't be the only measure, though. A kid may start to flop, but then get bowled over. In that case, if the defender is actually moving backward (to flop), and he or she still takes enough contact, I'd call the PC.

Agree it's easy enough to watch the head movement of the defender - but my point is why? IMO block/charge is easy enough, even on bang/bang plays. If you're in position to look at the defenders head movement then you probably shouldn't need this clue to call it correctly. And yes, the defender can flop backwards and still get the charge if there's sufficient contact.

Mark Dexter · #40 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 05:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Agree it's easy enough to watch the head movement of the defender - but my point is why? IMO block/charge is easy enough, even on bang/bang plays. If you're in position to look at the defenders head movement then you probably shouldn't need this clue to call it correctly. And yes, the defender can flop backwards and still get the charge if there's sufficient contact.

It's not a 100% indicator, but the laws of physics govern the flop/charge one.

Due to inertia, the head will stay still upon chest contact, at least until the neck (hopefully) pulls the head back. If it all goes together, it's because the muscles are pulling the neck back.

Ralph Stubenthal · #41 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 06:24pm

But when I'm alone in the half-light of the canyon, all existence seems to fade to being with my soul and memories, and the sounds of the Big Blackfoot River and a four-count rhythm, and a hope that a fish will rise. Eventually all things merge into one....and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world's great flood, and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of the rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words. And some of the words are theirs.

I am haunted by waters

BsktBallRef, that is breathtaking.

Mark Padgett · #42 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 07:12pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
But the head could be a great indicator of what's happening in the defender's brain.

Juulie - I want to see you apply this principle in the games we have together tomorrow night.

Isaak · #43 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 09:10pm

Sorry to get off track again, but just how many differences are there between your HS rules and say, FIBA rules. Cause I know NBA rules are a pile of .... but was wondering if all your other leagues are the same

Mark Padgett · #44 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 11:13pm

Quote:

Originally posted by whistleone
12) Learn these 3 phrases:
-Coach, you're right.

Is that French? I don't understand it.

JRutledge · #45 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 26, 2003, 12:04am

Quote:

Originally posted by Isaak
Sorry to get off track again, but just how many differences are there between your HS rules and say, FIBA rules. Cause I know NBA rules are a pile of .... but was wondering if all your other leagues are the same

Most of us have no experience with FIBA Rules. In the states we only deal with NF (High School) and NCAA (College) and some have NBA Rules for Pro-Am Leagues. FIBA is only something we see during the Olympics or the World Championships if we even care to watch. So you are not going to find many here that know much or anything about FIBA Rules in that much detail.

Peace