VCU v. Indiana

[kwv001]

Can someone familiar with NCAA replay rules explain the circumstances in which replay can be used on a play like this?

We can certainly debate the merits of the elbow rule, but the issue I have with this is that on the floor this was ruled to be either no contact, or incidental. The call that stopped play was a foul on VCU after this occured. Then they spend 7-8 minutes reviewing a call that wasn't made?!? I would have no issue going to the replay to determine F1 or not if this contact had been called on the floor. I think the last thing we want to do is pass on something marginal real time, with the thought that we will look at the replay at the next stoppage and make a decision then.

Another question - how was this review initiated? Who asked for it? What if the foul that did stop play didn't initiate the media time out?

[APG]

Originally Posted by kwv001

Can someone familiar with NCAA replay rules explain the circumstances in which replay can be used on a play like this?

We can certainly debate the merits of the elbow rule, but the issue I have with this is that on the floor this was ruled to be either no contact, or incidental. The call that stopped play was a foul on VCU after this occured. Then they spend 7-8 minutes reviewing a call that wasn't made?!? I would have no issue going to the replay to determine F1 or not if this contact had been called on the floor. I think the last thing we want to do is pass on something marginal real time, with the thought that we will look at the replay at the next stoppage and make a decision then.

Another question - how was this review initiated? Who asked for it? What if the foul that did stop play didn't initiate the media time out?

I'm sure someone else will expound more throughly but if the officials have plausible reason to believe a flagrant one for illegal elbow contact above the shoulder has/may have occurred, they are permitted to go to the monitor. In addition, a coach can request the officials to look at the monitor (in challenge fashion similar to the NFL) if they believe the officials missed a FF1 illegal elbow above the shoulders. If a FF1 isn't assessed, the coach is charged a timeout and has used his one "challenge." If he's successful, he doesn't lose the timeout.

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by kwv001

Can someone familiar with NCAA replay rules explain the circumstances in which replay can be used on a play like this?

I'll post the rule (kind of long) below. The interesting thing here is that it seems that in NCAAM, the officials can only go to the monitor to determine if there was a flagrant 2 foul, which clearly did not occur in this case. On the other hand, maybe the coach requested s review?


NCAA 2-13.2 Officials may use such available equipment only in the following situations:
d. Fouls.
1. Determine if a flagrant 2 personal foul, flagrant 2 contact technical foul or (women) flagrant 1 personal foul for illegal contact with an elbow above the shoulders of an opponent or a (women) contact dead ball technical foul for illegal contact with an elbow above the shoulders of an opponent occurred. When it is determined that a flagrant 2 contact technical foul did not occur but a flagrant 1 personal foul, or contact dead ball technical foul did occur, those fouls shall be penalized accordingly. However, no other infractions may be penalized.
2. When officials err and fail to observe the fouls according to 2-13.2.d.1 or a fight, they are permitted to correct and penalize these infraction(s), with the use of a monitor review, when the act occurs:
a. When there is a foul called for contact, the officials, with a plausible reason, may review the severity of that foul during the dead ball period following the call. When the ball becomes live, there shall be no review of the made call.
b. A coach may request a monitor review to determine if any of the fouls in 2-13.2.d.1 occurred. When no such foul is assessed, a timeout shall be charged to that team.
a. When the game clock was stopped, it must be corrected:
1. During the first dead ball after the clock was properly started.
b. When the game clock was running, it must be corrected:
1. During the first dead ball after the clock was properly stopped; or
2. Before the second live ball when the ball became dead after a successful goal but the clock continued to run.
3. When it is determined that a flagrant 1 or 2 personal foul, a flagrant 2 contact technical foul or a fight did occur within the prescribed time
frame, the infraction(s) should be penalized and play shall be resumed by awarding the ball to the offended team where the stoppage of play occurred to review the flagrant act. (Men) When a flagrant 2 contact technical foul or a contact dead ball technical foul is assessed, play shall be resumed by awarding the ball to the offended team at the division line on either side of the playing court. Any previous activity before the monitor review shall not be canceled or nullified. When it is determined that a flagrant 1 or 2 personal foul, a flagrant 2 contact technical foul or a fight did not occur or did not occur within the prescribed time frame, play shall be resumed where the stoppage of play occurred to review the act.

[kwv001]

Originally Posted by Lotto

I'll post the rule (kind of long) below. The interesting thing here is that it seems that in NCAAM, the officials can only go to the monitor to determine if there was a flagrant 2 foul, which clearly did not occur in this case. On the other hand, maybe the coach requested s review?

Thanks for posting. I agree with you...the way this is written, it seems there are only two possibilities for going to replay in this situation. The first, to determine the severity of a fall called for contact wouldn't apply here because there wasn't a foul called on that play. If the rule was properly applied, the only possibility then was that Coach Smart asked them to take a look.

It seems to me though, that the intent here is to use replay to determine the severity of a foul that had been called. I hope we don't get to the day where it is acceptable to use replay to determine if a travelling violation occured...

[JetMetFan]

About 30 seconds into the clip you see the officials speaking with the coach. That's probably when he was making the request since the crew couldn't have gone to the monitor on its own.

If this was NCAAW the crew could've checked on its own since we - women's officials - can check for both F1s and F2s without a coach's request.

[kwv001]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

About 30 seconds into the clip you see the officials speaking with the coach. That's probably when he was making the request since the crew couldn't have gone to the monitor on its own.

If this was NCAAW the crew could've checked on its own since we - women's officials - can check for both F1s and F2s without a coach's request.

Any idea what the rationale is for the difference between the men's and women's rule?

[Johnny Ringo]

Do most of you think the outcome was correct? Or could they have resulted in incidental contact, if that is an option?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by kwv001

Any idea what the rationale is for the difference between the men's and women's rule?

The men's and women's rules makers don't want to work together. There is no good reason for most of the mens/womens differences.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The men's and women's rules makers don't want to work together. There is no good reason for most of the mens/womens differences.