Murray State v. Marquette

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by sounderref

This is being over-thought and is an easy play. The contact by the offense was marginal, not even close to being enough for a foul. Was the defense vertical...no=foul. If you call a PC on that play you will not be working that level for long.

Side note, notice the L doubling the whistle. This was a routine defensive foul. These are also two of the very best in the tourney, wouldn't be surprised to see the C in the FF (probably an alternate) and the L in a regional semi/final.

Who is advocating a PC on this play? I'm advocating no block on the initial contact and a clear foul for defender's arms not being vertical on the shot. And the 'L' is who took the call to the table.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Who is advocating a PC on this play? I'm advocating no block on the initial contact and a clear foul for defender's arms not being vertical on the shot. And the 'L' is who took the call to the table.

Oh...it sure sounded like you were advocating that the defender we moving legally.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Oh...it sure sounded like you were advocating that the defender we moving legally.

I was, on the initial contact, because he wasn't moving when the shoulder hit his torso.

[sounderref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Who is advocating a PC on this play? I'm advocating no block on the initial contact and a clear foul for defender's arms not being vertical on the shot. And the 'L' is who took the call to the table.

Ringo mentions "clear displacement before the contact upstairs", and sniper said he could go PC because of the "shoulder charge". My comments were directed there.

IMO, all of the body contact, both by the offense and defense, is marginal while the lack of verticality by the defenfer's arms is where the fouls occurs.

My 0.02

[canuckrefguy]

Agree not even close to PC.

But disagree that this couldn't have been a no-call.

[ballgame99]

I've seen less contact called a PC (initial shoulder bump) when the defender falls backward. This defender tries to absorb it.

Agree that this is a foul, I just don't like when offensive players create that much contact (specifically referring to the initial shoulder bump). We all agree we aren't going to call that a charge if the defender stands there and tries to absorb it, but then we are going to give the guy a foul call when his arms aren't entirely vertical?

A no call here would not have bothered me a bit.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

I've seen less contact called a PC (initial shoulder bump) when the defender falls backward. This defender tries to absorb it.

Agree that this is a foul, I just don't like when offensive players create that much contact (specifically referring to the initial shoulder bump). We all agree we aren't going to call that a charge if the defender stands there and tries to absorb it, but then we are going to give the guy a foul call when his arms aren't entirely vertical?

A no call here would not have bothered me a bit.

If he had kept his arms vertical (and there never were, even before the bump) I would not have a foul for him stepping into A1 when he actually shot.

[Johnny Ringo]

Thanks for discussing. IMO it just seems like offensive player moved defensive player quite a bit. I felt like defensive player was there, granted arms were not vertical... Again thanks!

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Thanks for discussing. IMO it just seems like offensive player moved defensive player quite a bit. I felt like defensive player was there, granted arms were not vertical... Again thanks!

I agree, looking back, the first move by the offensive player causes the defender to jump back into the semi-circle. Defender then jumps back into original spot.

When offensive player shoots, defender is not at all straight up, but I think offense causes some of this contact - which is why I think unless you are calling it super-tight because the tempo of the game needs it, you can call this a draw and no-call it.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

i agree, looking back, the first move by the offensive player causes the defender to jump back into the semi-circle. Defender then jumps back into original spot.

When offensive player shoots, defender is not at all straight up, but i think offense causes some of this contact - which is why i think unless you are calling it super-tight because the tempo of the game needs it, you can call this a draw and no-call it.

+1