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-   -   NFHS closely guarded rule (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/89833-nfhs-closely-guarded-rule.html)

truerookie Thu Mar 15, 2012 08:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by letemplay (Post 831999)
Can anyone answer my question here?

No, the count should be maintained.

The distance is measured North/South.

icallfouls Thu Mar 15, 2012 08:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP (Post 831958)
You may want to re-check the ol' court diagram in any rule book. Or online. Or anywhere.

thanks for catching my egregious mistake
play on

Raymond Thu Mar 15, 2012 08:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by letemplay (Post 831450)
Considering the last part of this rule, having the head and shoulders past the defensive player, would the offensive player need to be on a path TOWARDS the basket? Would moving in a lateral direction be enough to have the count dropped, provided the dribbler is by the defender?

Quote:

Originally Posted by letemplay (Post 831999)
Can anyone answer my question here?

If A1 is moving laterally (parallel to division line) and the defender maintained a position that would put him in the path of A1 if A1 changed direction towards the endline then yes I would keep my count. If A1 has gotten far enough ahead that he could turn the corner and the defender would be trailing then I would stop my count.

Adam Thu Mar 15, 2012 09:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by badnewsref (Post 832003)
if a1 is moving laterally (parallel to division line) and the defender maintained a position that would put him in the path of a1 if a1 changed direction towards the endline then yes i would keep my count. If a1 has gotten far enough ahead that he could turn the corner and the defender would be trailing then i would stop my count.

+1

Rob1968 Thu Mar 15, 2012 09:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 832001)
No, the count should be maintained.

The distance is measured North/South.

Neither 4-10 nor 9-10, nor 9.10 make reference to directional orientation on the floor.
9.10.1(a) references the sideline, and (b) makes no reference to directional orientation.
Of course, the common desire of the offense is to advance the ball towards their basket. And, however rare, it is possible for a defender to be guarding within the 6-foot spec, as the dribbler moves across the court.
Also, in a trapping defensive mode, the defender(s) may be within the 6-foot spec but not on the side of the ballhandler that is closest to the offensive goal.
Please, help me out with your statement.

fullor30 Thu Mar 15, 2012 09:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 832000)
No





Yes

disagree with your yes answer on lateral guarding.

Edit: unless 'by' means past defender?

tref Thu Mar 15, 2012 09:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 832012)
disagree with your yes answer on lateral guarding.

Edit: unless 'by' means past defender?

I interpreted "by" as meaning head & shoulders past the defender.

truerookie Thu Mar 15, 2012 09:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob1968 (Post 832008)
Neither 4-10 nor 9-10, nor 9.10 make reference to directional orientation on the floor.
9.10.1(a) references the sideline, and (b) makes no reference to directional orientation.
Of course, the common desire of the offense is to advance the ball towards their basket. And, however rare, it is possible for a defender to be guarding within the 6-foot spec, as the dribbler moves across the court.
Also, in a trapping defensive mode, the defender(s) may be within the 6-foot spec but not on the side of the ballhandler that is closest to the offensive goal.
Please, help me out with your statement.

I interpret this as moving in attacking the basket to score. Thus, the N/S reference. If the ball handler is moving laterally and is not even attempting to attack the basket (turn the corner), I don't see a need to drop the count just because the ball handler has gotten head and shoulder past the defender.

Adam Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:04am

Bottom line, I'm not dropping my count just because the dribbler retreats (thus making his head and shoulders "past" the defender). If a defender is staying between the dribbler and the basket while the dribbler goes sideways, it's going to seem as if the head and shoulders are past since the defender is maintaining an angle towards the hoop rather than directly in the dribbler's path. I'm keeping my count here, too.

umpref19 Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:16pm

Coach Bill. Please next time you see this official please point out the rule 4-10 to him. Also please report him to his board because to me officials like this who don't know a basic rule should not be on the court refereeing. An official like this makes up stuff and I can only imagine what else he makes up when he referee's a game.

umpref19 Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:22pm

NCAA RULE BOOK. Closely Guarded
 
Section 13. Closely Guarded
Art. 1. (Men) A player in control in the front court only while holding or
dribbling the ball is closely guarded when his opponent is in a guarding
stance at a distance not exceeding 6 feet. This distance shall be measured
from the forward foot or feet of the defender to the forward foot or feet of
the opponent.
Art. 2. (Women) A player in control anywhere on the playing court while
holding (not dribbling) the ball is closely guarded when her opponent is in
a guarding stance at a distance not exceeding 3 feet. This distance shall be
measured from the forward foot or feet of the defender to the forward foot
or feet of the opponent.
Art. 3. After the start of a five-second closely guarded count, in order for
a closely guarded violation to occur, there shall be continuous guarding by
the same opponent.
Art. 4. When a player is positioned between the player in control of the ball
and his or her opponent, who is within 6 feet (men) or 3 feet (women), a
closely guarded situation does not exist.

BktBallRef Thu Mar 15, 2012 03:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by icallfouls (Post 832002)
thanks for catching my egregious mistake
play on

I just figured you played on a very small court.

BktBallRef Thu Mar 15, 2012 03:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 832001)
No, the count should be maintained.

The distance is measured North/South.

Gotta a rule reference that says that?

Once the dribbler is head/shoulders by the defender and moving away, the count should stop, as he's no longer in his path. North/South has nothing to do with it.

Smitty Thu Mar 15, 2012 03:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpref19 (Post 832046)
Coach Bill. Please next time you see this official please point out the rule 4-10 to him. Also please report him to his board because to me officials like this who don't know a basic rule should not be on the court refereeing. An official like this makes up stuff and I can only imagine what else he makes up when he referee's a game.

This was in an AAU game. You get what you pay for - it's quite possible the official was just a kid working for extra zit cream money. It's never a good idea for a coach to whip out a rule book. And report him to his board? A little over the top...

Adam Thu Mar 15, 2012 03:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 832125)
This was in an AAU game. You get what you pay for - it's quite possible the official was just a kid working for extra zit cream money. It's never a good idea for a coach to whip out a rule book. And report him to his board? A little over the top...

Agreed on all counts.


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