Sub State Finish

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by tref

Stomach to back & vice versa... we cant expect a player to freeze on their side after going for a loose ball on the floor, can we?
But if an explanation is needed the easy out is, "coach in my opinion he didnt have control of the ball until his momentum carried him onto his butt."

Tref,

Yes, we can.The player clearly gained control while prone and set up. According to 4-44-5 After gaining control while on the floor and touching with other than hand or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand.

So by the player rolling from side to sitting would be considered a violation.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Tref,

Yes, we can.The player clearly gained control while prone and set up. According to 4-44-5 After gaining control while on the floor and touching with other than hand or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand.

So by the player rolling from side to sitting would be considered a violation.

I guess there's a difference between CAN and SHOULD. One question - what part of rolling from side to sitting are you including in "attempt to get up or stand"?

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I guess there's a difference between CAN and SHOULD. One question - what part of rolling from side to sitting are you including in "attempt to get up or stand"?

As I understand it, If one is touching the floor with anything other than hand or foot. The options are to either call a time, shoot, pass or start a dribble from that specific position.

In that case, "attempt to get up"

[rwest]

Originally Posted by truerookie

As I understand it, If one is touching the floor with anything other than hand or foot. The options are to either call a time, shoot, pass or start a dribble from that specific position.

In that case, "attempt to get up"

If you are on your back, you can bend at the waist to an upright sitting position and that is not considered getting up.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by rwest

If you are on your back, you can bend at the waist to an upright sitting position and that is not considered getting up.

rwest,

I am aware of that. Thanks for poking me in the eye even more.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Tref,

Yes, we can.The player clearly gained control while prone and set up. According to 4-44-5 After gaining control while on the floor and touching with other than hand or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand.

So by the player rolling from side to sitting would be considered a violation.

Are you saying when a player is lying on the floor, sitting up would be a violation?

Check out the wording in case play 4.44.5 Sit B.

[M&M Guy]

Seems like I type slower than others.

truerookie - I wasn't meaning to pile on, or twist that stick.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Seems like I type slower than others.

truerookie - I wasn't meaning to pile on, or twist that stick.

I know. All these discussion does for me is to ensure I stay active in the rule/casebook and not totally rely on my memory. I do have C.R.S you know.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Are you saying when a player is lying on the floor, sitting up would be a violation?

Check out the wording in case play 4.44.5 Sit B.

I am saying if a player has gain control while on his/her stomach and attempt to sit up that would be considered a violation. However, if the player is on his/her back and gain control they can sit up.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by truerookie

I am saying if a player has gain control while on his/her stomach and attempt to sit up that would be considered a violation. However, if the player is on his/her back and gain control they can sit up.

Gosh, that would be rolling over

[Toren]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Gosh, that would be rolling over

Or extremely painful, time to get a sub in. You calling a travel or getting the meds in to have this kid taken out on a stretcher?

haha

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by truerookie

I am saying if a player has gain control while on his/her stomach and attempt to sit up that would be considered a violation. However, if the player is on his/her back and gain control they can sit up.

Ah, ok.

The only disagreement we may have regarding the original play, is when did the player actually gain control of the ball, and when did the player stop sliding? The wording in 4.44.5 Sit B says, "Once A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over." I see the initial "roll" as part of the attempt to gain control, and thus would consider that part of the slide (or as others have mentioned - momentum). Once the player stops that initial momentum, then they cannot roll over.

I wouldn't have called a travel, especially from the L, because the player's back was to the L at the beginning of the attempt to control the ball, and there's no way the L could see when control was obtained. However, once the player ended up on their back, and sat up, the TO was properly granted.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Ah, ok.

The only disagreement we may have regarding the original play, is when did the player actually gain control of the ball, and when did the player stop sliding? The wording in 4.44.5 Sit B says, "Once A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over." I see the initial "roll" as part of the attempt to gain control, and thus would consider that part of the slide (or as others have mentioned - momentum). Once the player stops that initial momentum, then they cannot roll over.

I wouldn't have called a travel, especially from the L, because the player's back was to the L at the beginning of the attempt to control the ball, and there's no way the L could see when control was obtained. However, once the player ended up on their back, and sat up, the TO was properly granted.

This was the exchange between tref and myself.

tref,

I seen the rule and the casebook play.

I observed the video again and I am man enough to say. The granting of the time out was correct by the official. The player in white was practically sitting on his buttocks when he requested the time out.
__________________

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by truerookie

This was the exchange between tref and myself.

tref,

I seen the rule and the casebook play.

I observed the video again and I am man enough to say. The granting of the time out was correct by the official. The player in white was practically sitting on his buttocks when he requested the time out.
__________________

Well, if I would read the whole thread and not type so slow, I would've seen that.

I'm going back to the kitchen and make another batch of cookies.

Carry on.

[tref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I wouldn't have called a travel, especially from the L, because the player's back was to the L at the beginning of the attempt to control the ball, and there's no way the L could see when control was obtained. However, once the player ended up on their back, and sat up, the TO was properly granted.

Wheres the like button at?