The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 25, 2012, 02:10am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
Well per the NFHS mechanics manual, the lead's PCA can extend to the other side of the court

This is how APG and I have both been trained and are expected to officiate these plays.
That's how I've been taught as well, and I've had far more problems solved with post play than bad situations on the sideline (1). It's the common mechanic here.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 25, 2012, 02:28am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffler3492 View Post
The last half of this season, I've found that when I'm the L, the ball is on the opposite wing, and there's a player posting up ball side, I rotate over to the ball side to get a better look at the post matchup.

This sort of happened instinctively, didn't really think about it the first time it happened. Anyone else do this?
That is what is taught in the state you live.

Again you can pick your spots as if you know the ball is going to the post and staying in the post. But if the ball just goes there and comes out, then you may not need to do it at all. But it is a much better look than looking through a defender.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 25, 2012, 03:24am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,263
Yes....go ball side.

The trail can't cover a contested on-ball play in the corner, maybe another match up at the FT line extended, and the post action.

If the ball is in the trail's corner, the most likely pass is to the post or back to the other pair in the trails primary. You get over there and turn back to cover the post but look through the post to keep your eye on the few players on the weak side. The on-ball official should very rarely be left covering the 6 players most involved or likely to be involved in the play. And if the lead stay's home, they can't see that post across the key and the other 4 players on their side anyway....the angles don't work.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 25, 2012, 07:10am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,392
Confucius Say ...

Move to improve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
NFHS Officials Manual: Going Ball Side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
IAABO mechanics require the L to rotate ball side in this situation.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 25, 2012, 10:15am
rsl rsl is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 301
From the 2012 officials manual ... long but on topic

2.0 TERMINOLOGY
2.0.1 Ball Side: The location of the ball in the normal frontcourt offensive
alignment of a team. In dividing the court down the middle, (using the basket as
a center point), end line to end line. The side of the court where the ball is located
is ball side.
2.0.2 Ball-Side Mechanic: Refers to the Lead moving across the key area to
the ball side of the court, on the Trail’s side, resulting in both officials being on
the same side of the court. The Lead moves ball side when the majority of players
and the ball goes below the free-throw line extended on the Trail’s side of the
court. This movement will allow the Lead to get a clear view of post play and eliminate
being “straight-lined.” Primary coverage areas are adjusted when this
occurs.

2.3.3 Ball-Side Mechanic:
A. General Provisions:
1. The use of a ball-side mechanic should be thoroughly discussed at the
pregame conference.
2. Ball and player location key the need for movement by the Lead.
3. The Lead should only move ball-side when the Trail is in the frontcourt.
B. Coverage:
1. When the majority of players and the ball are on the Trail’s side of the
floor, below the free-throw line extended, the Lead should close-down
toward the near lane line and may move laterally to ball-side.
2. Playing action may dictate that the lead NOT initiate movement – even
when the ball is on the Trail’s side – such as on a quick shot or a quick
drive to the basket.
Page 29 2.3 Court Coverage
3. Movement by the Lead
across the lane should be
brisk and with purpose.
4. Even while moving across
the lane, the Lead must officiate
players in the post
(PCA). Lead should not be
caught within the key area
except when moving across
or just briefly to view a play
or drive to the basket from
the Trail side of the court.
5. When the Lead moves
across the lane, the Lead’s
PCA is extended to include
the area inside the arc. See Diagram 2-20.
6. When the ball moves inside the three-point arc, the Lead is now on-ball
and the trail must extend coverage to assist with the open area on the
opposite side. See Diagram 2-21.
7. If the majority of players or the ball swings back to the opposite side,
the Lead should begin to quickly move back across the lane to cover
the play. See Diagram 2-22.
8. If there is a quick shot or drive to the basket and the Lead is still on the
same side of the court as the Trail, the Lead should close down to the
near lane-line extended and officiate rebounding action.
9. If a transition to the other end of the court occurs when the Lead is ballside,
the Lead must remember to go back to the other side of the court
and into diagonal coverage.
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 25, 2012, 11:19am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,794
Quote:
Originally Posted by refiator View Post
I would rather see the Trail move towards the end line to get a better look than to have the lead rotate all the way over to ball side. Of course, the play dictates, and maybe all players are there as well, but normally I want the lead to have a clear view of his/her PCA. Unless all 10 players have collapsed to that corner, the lead should not rotate all the way over. If you do this, you better be as deep off of the end line as you can so your peripheral vision can see weak side as well.
It's a great thought, in theory. Many of our older gyms have about 3 feet from the endline to the wall, though, making it impossible to work deep. On nights like those, the trail must be prepared to help from time to time as it's easy to lose your look with all the bodies in the way.

I rotate ball side in 2-person fairly often, but nowhere near as often as I do when working 3-person.
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 25, 2012, 11:35am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,392
Move To Improve ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
I rotate ball side in 2-person fairly often, but nowhere near as often as I do when working 3-person.
I used to rotate often until I went to a camp a few years ago and was told that I was bouncing back and forth across the lane too much, and that I should wait for a real good reason to go ball side.

We've been doing this a long time. Several years ago, I forgot that I had rotated ball side. There was a turnover, and I started running up the court as the new trail to only discover that the new lead and I were both on the same side of the basket line. Very embarrassing.

Also. What's three person? We've never heard of that here in the "Land That Time Forgot", also known as Connecticut.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 25, 2012, 12:02pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I used to rotate often until I went to a camp a few years ago and was told that I was bouncing back and forth across the lane too much, and that I should wait for a real good reason to go ball side.

We've been doing this a long time. Several years ago, I forgot that I had rotated ball side. There was a turnover, and I started running up the court as the new trail to only discover that the new lead and I were both on the same side of the basket line. Very embarrassing.

Also. What's three person? We've never heard of that here in the "Land That Time Forgot", also known as Connecticut.
That was embarrassing?
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 25, 2012, 12:08pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,392
In The Dream Version, I Was Naked ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
That was embarrassing?
I didn't discover the error until we were comfortably in our half court set. I looked ahead, and there he was.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 25, 2012, 12:14pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I didn't discover the error until we were comfortably in our half court set. I looked ahead, and there he was.
I pregame this, to have the lead go ahead and rotate over. Far easier, IMO, than having the trail try to find a chance to rotate; and less obvious to the untrained eyes that wander the coaching boxes.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 25, 2012, 12:46pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: SC
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan View Post
I've noticed a lot of newer officials don't do it for some reason - regardless of whether we pregame it.
I have just started getting comfortable using the mechanic this season. (Been doing basketball for 8 years, MS/HS for 4) I will do it a couple times a game depending on the offense. For "newbies", I think it sounds strange to leave an entire side virtually uncovered.

I think this is a mechanic better picked up after a couple years on the court. Your first couple seasons should be dedicated to recognizing fouls/violations, court positioning and mechanics. I would consider this an advanced mechanic.
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 25, 2012, 12:51pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,392
Look, But Don't Touch ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by McMac View Post
I think this is a mechanic better picked up after a couple years on the court. Your first couple seasons should be dedicated to recognizing fouls/violations, court positioning and mechanics. I would consider this an advanced mechanic.
Agree. We don't teach this to rookie officials that just passed the written test in November. We will introduce it the second year, at the voluntary "Bread and Butter" clinics.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 25, 2012, 12:57pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,794
Quote:
Originally Posted by McMac View Post
I have just started getting comfortable using the mechanic this season. (Been doing basketball for 8 years, MS/HS for 4) I will do it a couple times a game depending on the offense. For "newbies", I think it sounds strange to leave an entire side virtually uncovered.

I think this is a mechanic better picked up after a couple years on the court. Your first couple seasons should be dedicated to recognizing fouls/violations, court positioning and mechanics. I would consider this an advanced mechanic.
I don't think it should be treated as too advanced, though. After a while, that official won't do it because "I've never done it."
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 25, 2012, 03:43pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
I don't think it should be treated as too advanced, though. After a while, that official won't do it because "I've never done it."
It may not be for beginners, but you're right. Waiting too long could be more of a problem starting too soon.

I'd consider it a second level mechanic. Once a new official figures out the coverage areas, I'd introduce this mechanic.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 25, 2012, 06:23pm
Aleve Titles to Others
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: East Westchester of the Southern Conference
Posts: 5,381
Send a message via AIM to 26 Year Gap
I always pre-game it. I sometimes will come over on OOB plays if the spot is near the division line and all players are on the strong side. On one occasion, the ball came down near the end line, about midway between the arc and the lane line. I had a great look at the play, and my partner rotated over seamlessly. In most cases, I return to my side once the ball settles inbounds. Once in a while, if the players still remain opposite my PCA, I will stay near the lane line. I always go back, so my partner knows that he doesn't have to be concerned about transitions like BillyMac's embarrassing moment.
__________________
Never hit a piñata if you see hornets flying out of it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lead, follow, or get out of the way Back In The Saddle Basketball 4 Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:55am
Rotating Field Umpires Jim Porter Baseball 7 Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:25pm
Retouch on Lead-off? rwou812 Baseball 7 Mon May 23, 2005 08:36am
Lead throw-in RookieDude Basketball 4 Fri Dec 31, 2004 01:31pm
Does lead show 3? hardwdref Basketball 9 Wed Dec 08, 2004 09:08am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:12am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1