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Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 03:04pm
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Team members leave bench...

B1 fouls A1 awkwardly and he falls hard to the ground. Team members A6, A7, & A8 come 5 to 10 feet onto the court and then go back. There was no fight involved or any possibility of a fight but for some reason they thought there might be and/or they were concerned for there teammate.

Is there any penalty? (NFHS and NCAA)
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Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 03:06pm
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If they came 5 to 10 feet on the court after a hard foul, that makes the possibility of a fight right there. Flagrant technicals on each player.
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Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 03:09pm
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Had To Be There ...

If they were very, very, far away from the hard foul, and were just coming of the bench to get a better look at their fallen teammate, then I may, and I said may, give them a pass.
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Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 03:16pm
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NCAA-M

10-6-2j: Bench personnel leaving the bench area when a fight may break out or has broken out. The head coach may leave the bench area in this case to prevent the situation from escalating.

Penalty: Any individual who leaves the bench area and enters the playing court but does not participate in a fight (Art. 2.j) shall not be assessed a CLASS B technical foul (no free throws awarded). That individual shall be ejected but is not subject to suspension.
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Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 03:20pm
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NFHS:



10.4.5 SITUATION F:

It appears a fight may occur on the playing court when (a) A6 and A7; or (b) A6 and B6 leave their respective benches.

RULING: In (a) and (b), all players leaving the bench are assessed flagrant fouls and disqualified. The respective head coach is assessed a maximum of one indirect technical foul (regardless of the number of players leaving the bench) resulting in the loss of coaching-box privileges. In (a), Team B is awarded two free throws and the ball for a division line throw-in. In (b), no free throws are awarded and the ball is put into play at the point of interruption. (4-36-1, 4-36-2)
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Last edited by Raymond; Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 03:29pm.
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Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 03:24pm
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So in review.

Quote:
Originally Posted by All_Heart View Post
B1 fouls A1 awkwardly and he falls hard to the ground. Team members A6, A7, & A8 come 5 to 10 feet onto the court and then go back. There was no fight involved or any possibility of a fight but for some reason they thought there might be and/or they were concerned for there teammate.

Is there any penalty? (NFHS and NCAA)
For NCAA-M the players who left the bench area are ejected but there are no additional penalties or T's charged to the HC.

For NFHS each player is charged a flagrant foul, ejected, and the HC is charged with 1 indirect T, and Team B gets 2 free throws.


But since you say in your scenario there is no possibility of a fight then I guess a stern warning would suffice.
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Last edited by Raymond; Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 03:31pm.
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Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 06:26pm
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If you said no fight was possible, then you could apply 10-4-2

NFHS

Rule 10
SECTION 4 BENCH TECHNICAL
The head coach is responsible for his/her own conduct and behavior, as well as substitutes, disqualified team members and all other bench personnel. Bench personnel, including the head coach, shall not:

ART. 2 . . . Enter the court unless by permission of an official to attend an injured player.

Since you said more than one player came off, and since it's not the intent to penalize multiple infractions (per case book play 10.4.4 Situation C), you could charge Team A with one T, and an indirect to the head coach.

If you were feeling nice, you could also just warn the coach to keep control of his bench.
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Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 07:11pm
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I Would Not Rather Fight Than Switch ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
If you said no fight was possible, then you could apply 10-4-2.
AllPurposeGamer: Nice citation.
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Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 11:16pm
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For the record, the phrase "during a fight or when a fight may break out" appears in 10-4-5. That is really broad language. Sounds to me like this is one where they want a shoot first, ask questions later attitude.
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Old Wed Feb 22, 2012, 04:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All_Heart View Post
B1 fouls A1 awkwardly and he falls hard to the ground. Team members A6, A7, & A8 come 5 to 10 feet onto the court and then go back. There was no fight involved or any possibility of a fight but for some reason they thought there might be and/or they were concerned for their teammate.

Is there any penalty? (NFHS and NCAA)
Likely this. Remind the coach perhaps, and move on.
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Old Wed Feb 22, 2012, 04:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
For the record, the phrase "during a fight or when a fight may break out" appears in 10-4-5. That is really broad language. Sounds to me like this is one where they want a shoot first, ask questions later attitude.
Basically the rules folks are saying "if you're on the bench, stay there." Here's the wording from NFHS 10-5-5:

The head coach shall not permit team members to leave the bench area and/or playing court for an unauthorized reason.

I'm thinking they don't want us guessing why a kid came onto the court.
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Old Wed Feb 22, 2012, 04:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan View Post
Basically the rules folks are saying "if you're on the bench, stay there." Here's the wording from NFHS 10-5-5:

The head coach shall not permit team members to leave the bench area and/or playing court for an unauthorized reason.

I'm thinking they don't want us guessing why a kid came onto the court.
And if the players all motion to their injured teammate?

Remember, that helping our fellow man is a natural reaction. Especially teammates.
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Old Wed Feb 22, 2012, 05:03am
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There's a reason the pertinent rules for this situation don't necessarily require an automatically disqualification of bench personnel for coming onto the court. We have to be able to use our judgement...fight might break out, well everyone coming off the bench that's not authorized to is done for the game. No possibility of a fight (as per the OP), then by rule, we can just penalize with a T and not toss anyone. And if one is feeling especially generous, one could even just warn the team and be done with it.

This is why we get paid the big bucks!
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Old Wed Feb 22, 2012, 08:20am
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Thanks AllPurposeGamer, this was the rule I was thinking of but I was just fixated on the "Fight" rule. It is a Class B Technical for NCAA Mens:

10-6-2...A technical foul shall be assessed to a coach and all bench personnel for the following infractions:
a. Entering the playing court to attend an injured player unless done with
permission of an official.

However, I agree with everyone that another option and probably the best option in my case was a stern warning (not a David Stern warning... ).
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