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-   -   Karl Hess tosses two NC State players (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/89154-karl-hess-tosses-two-nc-state-players.html)

fiasco Sat Feb 18, 2012 06:03pm

Karl Hess tosses two NC State players
 
Make that former players. From the stands.

Link

refiator Sat Feb 18, 2012 09:32pm

Unbelievable....or not. But I love it.
I had a state tourney game today where 2 fans were removed...they were sitting behind the scorers table, and, unbeknownst to them, behind the site manager, who had them removed them for yelling disparaging statements about the officials. It turns out that they were the AD and Asst AD of the team that won by more than 20. Nice example.

Adam Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by refiator (Post 825506)
Unbelievable....or not. But I love it.
I had a state tourney game today where 2 fans were removed...they were sitting behind the scorers table, and, unbeknownst to them, behind the site manager, who had them removed them for yelling disparaging statements about the officials. It turns out that they were the AD and Asst AD of the team that won by more than 20. Nice example.


That sort of behavior should be pubicized in the papers. Horrible that adults get away with this crap.

BballRookie Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:28pm

Karl Hess Ejects Tom Gugliotta, Chris Corchiani - YouTube

This is a youtube link of the guys getting tossed. Sitting right behind the scorers table I'm sure they got in some nasty shots throughout the game.

BktBallRef Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:30pm

I don't know what was said but I know a few things.

1- if the idiot is right behind the table and is a distractions when we're trying to report, then I'm much more likely to get rid of them.

2- my guess is they got personal with Hess.

3- Hess bought himself some unneeded publicity.

mbyron Sun Feb 19, 2012 09:09am

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7zhHTpzJMpE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

26 Year Gap Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 825588)
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7zhHTpzJMpE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Looks like Corchiani got an assist.

asdf Sun Feb 19, 2012 01:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 825624)
Looks like Corchiani got an assist.

Great example setters for their kids.

Freaking clowns.....

twocentsworth Sun Feb 19, 2012 02:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdf (Post 825686)
Great example setters for their kids.

Freaking clowns.....

ur right....Karl Hess is a freaking clown!

CaRef5 Sun Feb 19, 2012 02:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by twocentsworth (Post 825695)
ur right....Karl Hess is a freaking clown!

you're an idiot.

JRutledge Sun Feb 19, 2012 03:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 825517)
I don't know what was said but I know a few things.

1- if the idiot is right behind the table and is a distractions when we're trying to report, then I'm much more likely to get rid of them.

2- my guess is they got personal with Hess.

3- Hess bought himself some unneeded publicity.

Why is it unneeded? Was he doing his job? That is all that matters. If they got very personal they needed to go. And the comments did not have to be directed at Hess, they could have been about his partners or something that would be totally inappropriate. It probably happens more often but this happened to be two former players of that school and it made SportsCenter. And with everything on YouTube and Twitter (Corchiani Tweeted comments about Hess and being ejected), not much you can do to avoid the publicity in these days.

Peace

APG Sun Feb 19, 2012 03:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 825719)
Why is it unneeded? Was he doing his job? That is all that matters. If they got very personal they needed to go. And the comments did not have to be directed at Hess, they could have been about his partners or something that would be totally inappropriate. It probably happens more often but this happened to be two former players of that school and it made SportsCenter. And with everything on YouTube and Twitter (Corchiani Tweeted comments about Hess and being ejected), not much you can do to avoid the publicity in these days.

Peace

Peace

I think BBR meant unneeded in the sense that Karl Hess could have gone to game management and told them that they needed to go instead of interacting with the culprits like he did. That's ideally how this situation should have been handled.

BillyMac Sun Feb 19, 2012 03:28pm

It's Not My Job, Man ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 825720)
Could have gone to game management and told them that they needed to go instead of interacting with the culprits like he did. That's ideally how this situation should have been handled.

Agree. He gave them the old baseball "You're Outta Here" heave-ho signal. I know more about medieval literature than I do about how to deal with an NCAA crowd, but in dealing with my high school crowds, I do not interact directly with unruly fans, I go directly to the site director, and let him deal with them. That's why he gets paid the big bucks.

JRutledge Sun Feb 19, 2012 03:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 825720)
I think BBR meant unneeded in the sense that Karl Hess could have gone to game management and told them that they needed to go instead of interacting with the culprits like he did. That's ideally how this situation should have been handled.

He is at the table and they are saying things to him. I agree he could have walked away in a perfect world, but usually that is how you get in contact with GM is at the scorer's table. I doubt Hess or any of the officials would have gone to them at some other part of the arena unless they knew for certain where someone in charge could be.

Peace

26 Year Gap Sun Feb 19, 2012 04:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 825723)
He is at the table and they are saying things to him. I agree he could have walked away in a perfect world, but usually that is how you get in contact with GM is at the scorer's table. I doubt Hess or any of the officials would have gone to them at some other part of the arena unless they knew for certain where someone in charge could be.

Peace

The game manager with the badge showed up fairly quickly. Playing to the moron fans on the way out should have gotten a game ban from the school. Doubt that will happen, though.

truerookie Sun Feb 19, 2012 04:33pm

The bottom line is Mr. Hess should not have interacted with them unless they were threatening him/partners physically.

It reminds me of a saying my parents told me while growing up.

"Stick and stones my break my bones but words will never hurt"

JRutledge Sun Feb 19, 2012 04:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 825753)
The game manager with the badge showed up fairly quickly. Playing to the moron fans on the way out should have gotten a game ban from the school. Doubt that will happen, though.

I am sure there is going to be something said from the conference office based on the report given by the officials.

And for all we know there could have been some previous problems at this school and with these guys. Sometimes officials are put on notice of these things and take care of what has been a problem. I just do not like to draw conclusions based on a very little part of the overall story. I can imagine throwing out a fan if they say some very specific things and not waiting to have them ejected. If we did this more maybe fans would realize that paying your money and being close to the floor is not a license to say anything you want. I love how one of the guys said Hess had "rabbit ears" but for all we know he could have said something that most of us would be inappropriate.

Peace

JRutledge Sun Feb 19, 2012 04:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 825755)
The bottom line is Mr. Hess should not have interacted with them unless they were threatening him/partners physically.

It reminds me of a saying my parents told me while growing up.

"Stick and stones my break my bones but words will never hurt"

So if he made racial comments, sexual comments, comments about his family, those should be ignored?

Peace

Adam Sun Feb 19, 2012 04:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 825755)
The bottom line is Mr. Hess should not have interacted with them unless they were threatening him/partners physically.

It reminds me of a saying my parents told me while growing up.

"Stick and stones my break my bones but words will never hurt"

1. You don't know enough to reach your bottom line.

2. Physical threats aren't the only thing we need to address.

3. It was a stupid saying when I was a kid, and it's a stupid saying now.

26 Year Gap Sun Feb 19, 2012 05:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 825757)
I am sure there is going to be something said from the conference office based on the report given by the officials.

And for all we know there could have been some previous problems at this school and with these guys. Sometimes officials are put on notice of these things and take care of what has been a problem. I just do not like to draw conclusions based on a very little part of the overall story. I can imagine throwing out a fan if they say some very specific things and not waiting to have them ejected. If we did this more maybe fans would realize that paying your money and being close to the floor is not a license to say anything you want. I love how one of the guys said Hess had "rabbit ears" but for all we know he could have said something that most of us would be inappropriate.

Peace

Somehow, I suspect very few guys with rabbit ears work ACC games.

JRutledge Sun Feb 19, 2012 05:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 825778)
Somehow, I suspect very few guys with rabbit ears work ACC games.

And Big East. I think he is doing fine. ;)

Peace

truerookie Sun Feb 19, 2012 06:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 825758)
So if he made racial comments, sexual comments, comments about his family, those should be ignored?

Peace

I'm saying yes. You don't get to that level worrying about what people are saying from the stands. They don't know me or my upbring to even comment on it.

It shows their ignorance in my book.

You just smile and say thank you and keep it moving.

truerookie Sun Feb 19, 2012 06:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 825763)
1. You don't know enough to reach your bottom line.

2. Physical threats aren't the only thing we need to address.

3. It was a stupid saying when I was a kid, and it's a stupid saying now.


1. You don't know what I know.

2. Physical threats are the only things i would concern myself with.

3. Yep, I expected that mindset.

BktBallRef Sun Feb 19, 2012 07:02pm

I never said he should not have gotten rid of them.

I said, he's gotten "unneeded publicity." If you think that it's a good idea to have all this negativity because of his actions, then you must be as big of an idiot as the two he tossed.

He should have followed protocol, gone to game management and had them take care of it instead of standing at the table, engaging them and giving them the old heave-ho.

JRutledge Sun Feb 19, 2012 07:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 825812)
I'm saying yes. You don't get to that level worrying about what people are saying from the stands. They don't know me or my upbring to even comment on it.

It shows their ignorance in my book.

You just smile and say thank you and keep it moving.

That is wonderful, but that is a place of education and if they are calling people out by racial, sexual and other inappropriate comments like that, they would be gone. And those comments are not allowed in other aspects of any university life or on campus, why allowable here? And I have been called a racial slur and guess what you think happened to those individuals?

That is not ignorance, that is policy. I doubt seriously that the officials are told to ignore those kinds of comments even if you do not agree with them. I did not see the people at the school objecting and I am sure the conference did not either if those comments I mentioned above took place.

Peace

Pumpy25 Sun Feb 19, 2012 07:13pm

As a spectator I understand to an extent what he did, but I don't know what they said either. I think it shows thin skin. Players/coaches get heckled all the time, why are officials above this and untouchable? Just looking from another view point, coaches and players have to answer for their mistakes, why not officials? Not saying he did bad during the game because I didn't watch it. I've always wanted to see officials be open to the media, not about specific calls, but for questioning and comments. People would get more insight on what the thought process is behind certain things.

APG Sun Feb 19, 2012 07:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 825812)
I'm saying yes. You don't get to that level worrying about what people are saying from the stands. They don't know me or my upbring to even comment on it.

It shows their ignorance in my book.

You just smile and say thank you and keep it moving.

You don't think people at that level are going to take care of an idiot fan who is saying obscene comments (sexual/racial/ethic slurs, etc) loud and clear enough to be identified? :confused:

BktBallRef Sun Feb 19, 2012 07:17pm

NC State is fully supporting the two former players in this situation.

"I have spoken to Commissioner John Swofford and Karl Hicks, Associate Commissioner for Basketball Operations, regarding our concerns and our need for clarification as to why this occurred," said NC State athletic director Debbie Yow. "We expect fair treatment of our fans at State athletic events."

Further, they are now planning an impromptu ceremony honoring the 1989 Wolfpack team on Tuesday that was not previously planned. The two players were part of the '89 team.

APG Sun Feb 19, 2012 07:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpy25 (Post 825817)
As a spectator I understand to an extent what he did, but I don't know what they said either. I think it shows thin skin. Players/coaches get heckled all the time, why are officials above this and untouchable? Just looking from another view point, coaches and players have to answer for their mistakes, why not officials? Not saying he did bad during the game because I didn't watch it. I've always wanted to see officials be open to the media, not about specific calls, but for questioning and comments. People would get more insight on what the thought process is behind certain things.

You have no way of knowing if the official had thin skin or not as you don't know what was said. And it's not as if he went out of his way to address this...the freaking idiots are right at the scorer's table where officials are at all the time taking care of our duties throughout the game.

Also officials do answer for their mistakes...we all have bosses we have to answer to if something goes wrong. There would be little point in having officials open to the media...we know exactly what the questions would be.

truerookie Sun Feb 19, 2012 07:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 825815)
That is wonderful, but that is a place of education and if they are calling people out by racial, sexual and other inappropriate comments like that, they would be gone. And those comments are not allowed in other aspects of any university life or on campus, why allowable here? And I have been called a racial slur and guess what you think happened to those individuals?

That is not ignorance, that is policy. I doubt seriously that the officials are told to ignore those kinds of comments even if you do not agree with them. I did not see the people at the school objecting and I am sure the conference did not either if those comments I mentioned above took place.

Peace

Maybe my vision is bigger?

I truly doubt anything racial, sexual and other inappropriate comments was said to Mr. Hess. If so, I am quite sure someone would have spoken up before Mr. Hess took the actions he took.. So thats quite a reach Mr. Rutledge.

BktBallRef Sun Feb 19, 2012 07:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpy25 (Post 825817)
As a spectator I understand to an extent what he did, but I don't know what they said either. I think it shows thin skin. Players/coaches get heckled all the time, why are officials above this and untouchable? Just looking from another view point, coaches and players have to answer for their mistakes, why not officials? Not saying he did bad during the game because I didn't watch it. I've always wanted to see officials be open to the media, not about specific calls, but for questioning and comments. People would get more insight on what the thought process is behind certain things.

This isn't about officials having to answer for their mistakes. This is about two fans who thought they were untouchable and could say what they wanted to.

As for your suggestion, the only thing that would come from officials being interviewed by the media is that more fans would post that time honored comment, "The refs think the game is about them."

truerookie Sun Feb 19, 2012 07:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 825819)
You don't think people at that level are going to take care of an idiot fan who is saying obscene comments (sexual/racial/ethic slurs, etc) loud and clear enough to be identified? :confused:

Come on, how do we know any sexual, racial, ethic slurs occurred? This is quite a reach. I belive if those things happened. Someone other than Mr. Hess would have taken care of it. I know I would have if I was in the stands witnessing this behavior.

JRutledge Sun Feb 19, 2012 07:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpy25 (Post 825817)
As a spectator I understand to an extent what he did, but I don't know what they said either. I think it shows thin skin. Players/coaches get heckled all the time, why are officials above this and untouchable? Just looking from another view point, coaches and players have to answer for their mistakes, why not officials? Not saying he did bad during the game because I didn't watch it. I've always wanted to see officials be open to the media, not about specific calls, but for questioning and comments. People would get more insight on what the thought process is behind certain things.

This just shows a lot of ignorance on your part. Players/coaches a lot of times address issues with officials about things fans do. I have even had game management ask me and my partners to watch out for certain behavior of student sections and to tell them if they are going over the top. Actually they expect us to address it or to monitor certain actions and comments. So you have no idea what you are talking about really if you think these things are not addressed at many levels. My state during the playoffs has a required statement that must be read before every contest about fan behavior and many conferences do the same during the regular season. And if there is a problem with fans we as officials are instructed to remove problems from the stands. It is not like he went up into the stands and got rid of the guys, he has security and the police to address this issue.

Peace

truerookie Sun Feb 19, 2012 07:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 825829)
This just shows a lot of ignorance on your part. Players/coaches a lot of times address issues with officials about things fans do. I have even had game management ask me and my partners to watch out for certain behavior of student sections and to tell them if they are going over the top. Actually they expect us to address it or to monitor certain actions and comments. So you have no idea what you are talking about really if you think these things are not addressed at many levels. My state during the playoffs has a required statement that must be read before every contest about fan behavior and many conferences do the same during the regular season. And if there is a problem with fans we as officials are instructed to remove problems from the stands. It is not like he went up into the stands and got rid of the guys, he has security and the police to address this issue.

Peace

This goes to show that game managment should have more staff on hand to handle those situations.

APG Sun Feb 19, 2012 07:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 825826)
Come on, how do we know any sexual, racial, ethic slurs occurred? This is quite a reach. I belive if those things happened. Someone other than Mr. Hess would have taken care of it. I know I would have if I was in the stands witnessing this behavior.

I thought we were talking in a more general sense...not specific to what the Mr. Hess did...your reply to JRut, saying you would ignore racial/sexual slurs or at this level, made it seem like you believe those type of comments are routinely ignored or that you would ignore them. I got that sense from your "sticks and stones" bit...if I was wrong then I apologize.

As far as what Mr. Hess did, we don't know his side of the story, nor what he heard say. We only know what the fans told the local media what they said. The only thing we DO know is Mr. Hess should have gone through game management and had them deal with the fans.

truerookie Sun Feb 19, 2012 07:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 825833)
I thought we were talking in a more general sense...not specific to what the Mr. Hess did...your reply to JRut, saying you would ignore racial/sexual slurs or at this level, made it seem like you believe those type of comments are routinely ignored or that you would ignore them. I got that sense from your "sticks and stones" bit...if I was wrong then I apologize.

As far as what Mr. Hess did, we don't know his side of the story, nor what he heard say. We only know what the fans told the local media what they said. The only thing we DO know is Mr. Hess should have gone through game management and had them deal with the fans.

There is more than one way to handle a situation.

1. I can include the behavior in my report after the game. Silently bring attention to the situation with the University and allow them to handle it.

2. I would do this at do this at the high school level too. File a report with the state and allow them to address the behavior. (At the high school level most scorekeeper, timers work for the school district) So if i hear it they can hear it too.

JRutledge Sun Feb 19, 2012 07:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 825826)
Come on, how do we know any sexual, racial, ethic slurs occurred? This is quite a reach. I belive if those things happened. Someone other than Mr. Hess would have taken care of it. I know I would have if I was in the stands witnessing this behavior.

You do not know what they said and we cannot assume that those things were not said. I know I just posed the question because I know of situations where things were said that were of that nature. I know I would not hesitate to get rid of a fan in those cases.

I also find it funny that people have standards for ejecting players or coaches if they use a certain word, but we are supposed to just turn the other cheek in a educational environment that would not be acceptable in any other aspect of life.

Peace

JRutledge Sun Feb 19, 2012 07:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 825832)
This goes to show that game managment should have more staff on hand to handle those situations.

I cannot speak for this situation, but attending the college and pro games I have in the past, there are a lot of those individuals around than what we would see at the HS level in most cases. Some places at the HS level have several police officers at games and other places have just teachers or administrators that are hard to find in a big crowd. As I said I saw a police officer that was removing the men from the arena.

Peace

Brad Sun Feb 19, 2012 08:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by twocentsworth (Post 825695)
ur right....Karl Hess is a freaking clown!

What makes you say this? Personal vendetta or something?

Wonder if you would make derogatory comments about another official if your real name showed rather than 'twocentsworth'.

I don't know Karl Hess personally ... but he sure works a LOT of games for someone who's a clown.

truerookie Sun Feb 19, 2012 08:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 825836)
You do not know what they said and we cannot assume that those things were not said. I know I just posed the question because I know of situations where things were said that were of that nature. I know I would not hesitate to get rid of a fan in those cases.

I also find it funny that people have standards for ejecting players or coaches if they use a certain word, but we are supposed to just turn the other cheek in a educational environment that would not be acceptable in any other aspect of life.

Peace

1. How can we assume they were said?

2. It is indeed funny.

truerookie Sun Feb 19, 2012 08:23pm

Honestly, I was hoping that the incident could have been handled in a more appropriate manner.

Bad Zebra Sun Feb 19, 2012 08:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 825849)
Honestly, I was hoping that the incident could have been handled in a more appropriate manner.

Appropriate by who's standard's? Yours? How would you know what was appropriate unless you knew what was said that led to the ejection? I think most (read: ALL) officials...here or anywhere would give Hess the benefit of the doubt. He's probably earned that much based on his stature, experience and reputation.

truerookie Sun Feb 19, 2012 09:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra (Post 825855)
Appropriate by who's standard's? Yours? How would you know what was appropriate unless you knew what was said that led to the ejection? I think most (read: ALL) officials...here or anywhere would give Hess the benefit of the doubt. He's probably earned that much based on his stature, experience and reputation.

Look here guy, You damn sure don't wait until the second half to address this behavior if it warrants getting tossed.

Bad Zebra Sun Feb 19, 2012 09:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 825856)
Look here guy, You damn sure don't wait until the second half to address this behavior if it warrants getting tossed.

Really guy? When did the behavior start? How could you have any opinion on when to address it? Unless you were sitting within earshot, you have no clue when or how it should be addressed. How do you come on an officials' discussion board and rip a highly regarded DI official without a clue as to what lead up to his actions?

truerookie Sun Feb 19, 2012 09:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra (Post 825858)
Really guy? When did the behavior start? How could you have any opinion on when to address it? Unless you were sitting within earshot, you have no clue when or how it should be addressed. How do you come on an officials' discussion board and rip a highly regarded DI official without a clue as to what lead up to his actions?

Once again GUY, I have not ripped Mr. Hess,

1. I have stated I wish it could have been handled in a less publicized manner.

2. Just like you identify a problem player is the say concept towards problem spectators. You identify it early and put them on notice.

26 Year Gap Sun Feb 19, 2012 09:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 825815)
That is wonderful, but that is a place of education and if they are calling people out by racial, sexual and other inappropriate comments like that, they would be gone. And those comments are not allowed in other aspects of any university life or on campus, why allowable here? And I have been called a racial slur and guess what you think happened to those individuals?

That is not ignorance, that is policy. I doubt seriously that the officials are told to ignore those kinds of comments even if you do not agree with them. I did not see the people at the school objecting and I am sure the conference did not either if those comments I mentioned above took place.

Peace

ESPN gave the big name anchor a 30 day suspension for Jeremy Lin comments, but the no name headline writer got canned. So, to see these guys milking this story is irritating, to say the least.
He got rid of those guys a lot quicker than if he had searched around to find game management, which should have been prominently seated at the table.

VaTerp Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra (Post 825855)
Appropriate by who's standard's? Yours? How would you know what was appropriate unless you knew what was said that led to the ejection? I think most (read: ALL) officials...here or anywhere would give Hess the benefit of the doubt. He's probably earned that much based on his stature, experience and reputation.

Well Hess did not handle it in an entirely appropriate fashion according to the ACC. Surprised nobody has posted this yet but here is the statement from John Cloughtery:

“Under Rule 10, when circumstances warrant, an official has the authority to request home game management to eject fans when the behavior, in the officials’ judgement, is extreme or excessive. It’s unfortunate in this instance that ACC protocol of communicating directly with the home game management was not followed, and instead, a building security officer was solicited. We will re-communicate this policy with all officials to ensure proper protocol is followed.”

Obviously I wasnt there and as an official I am inclined to give Hess the benefit of the doubt. But based on the limited info I have I am of the opinion that Hess would have been better served by ignoring these two for the remaining 2:19 of the game. Or by following protocal and attempting to have a less visible conversation with game management. Also, what was a pretty one sided game without a lot of extracurriculars became very chippy after the incident including a double T.

Corchiani is claiming that both he and Gugliotta had their families with them and did not use any profanity or say anything particularly offensive. And I have a good friend who is the videographer for NC State who claims that the two were very vocal throughout the game but did not cross any lines that arent normally crossed by a good number of fans during any conference contest. Of course this is one side of the story and again I am inclined to give Hess the benefit of doubt.

But if I had to guess, I would think that given the opportunity to do it over again, Hess would like to have handled this a little differently.

fullor30 Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 825755)
The bottom line is Mr. Hess should not have interacted with them unless they were threatening him/partners physically.

It reminds me of a saying my parents told me while growing up.

"Stick and stones my break my bones but words will never hurt"

You are truly a true rookie.

APG Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:25pm

I think a number of us (including me) have stated that Hess didn't go about this the correct way if he wanted the fans ejected.

Brad Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by VaTerp (Post 825870)
...I am inclined to give Hess the benefit of doubt.

Exactly!

I'm amazed at the media and ADs, etc. that immediately come to the defense of the guys that got kicked out without having any knowledge of what actually occurred. Do you really think that these guys are ever going to admit wrongdoing?

I don't know the specifics of what happened, but I do know the official in question has 25+ years of Division I experience, has worked the Final Four several times and the championship game once. Do you really think that he got to where he is by having rabbit ears and throwing fans out of games? I'm sure that these guys crossed the line and he had a damn good reason to stop the game, in front of 17,000+ other fans, and have them ejected — that's not something you do lightly.

JRutledge Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 825873)
I think a number of us (including me) have stated that Hess didn't go about this the correct way if he wanted the fans ejected.

I agree, but I also think none of us know what was said and why the issue was handled the way it was. I can see many things being said that would make me do exactly what he did without knowing or having a clear policy.

Peace

VaTerp Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 825875)
I agree, but I also think none of us know what was said and why the issue was handled the way it was. I can see many things being said that would make me do exactly what he did without knowing or having a clear policy.

Peace

But there is a clear policy in place and Hess did not follow it.

asdf Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by VaTerp (Post 825870)
Corchiani is claiming that both he and Gugliotta had their families with them and did not use any profanity or say anything particularly offensive. And I have a good friend who is the videographer for NC State who claims that the two were very vocal throughout the game but did not cross any lines that arent normally crossed by a good number of fans during any conference contest.

Corchiani also admitted in his tweets that they always get on the officials. But then complained that they were embarrassed in front of their children.

Gugliotta showed his maturity by tipping his cap to the crowd as he was leaving.

Fine example they set for their kids.

Adam Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 825813)
1. You don't know what I know.

Let's call it an educated guess:

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 825823)
I truly doubt anything racial, sexual and other inappropriate comments was said to Mr. Hess. If so, I am quite sure someone would have spoken up before Mr. Hess took the actions he took.. So thats quite a reach Mr. Rutledge.

Yep, you don't know. Looks like I guessed right. I'm shocked.

Adam Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpy25 (Post 825817)
As a spectator I understand to an extent what he did, but I don't know what they said either. I think it shows thin skin. Players/coaches get heckled all the time, why are officials above this and untouchable? Just looking from another view point, coaches and players have to answer for their mistakes, why not officials? Not saying he did bad during the game because I didn't watch it. I've always wanted to see officials be open to the media, not about specific calls, but for questioning and comments. People would get more insight on what the thought process is behind certain things.

I have no idea what was said or to whom; but I can tell you that the same comments will get you booted whether you say them to the officials, players, coaches, or table.

Heckling won't get you tossed unless it crosses a big bright line.

JRutledge Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by VaTerp (Post 825880)
But there is a clear policy in place and Hess did not follow it.

When you say clear policy, clear to whom? These guys do not work in one conference and one conference every night. If it was so clear why was it not followed? Must not have been clear enough.

Peacce

VaTerp Mon Feb 20, 2012 01:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 825898)
When you say clear policy, clear to whom? These guys do not work in one conference and one conference every night. If it was so clear why was it not followed? Must not have been clear enough.

Peacce

To say it was not clear just because it wasnt followed is false logic at its worst. My understanding is that the policy is on paper and it's clear enough that Clougherty feels comfortable publicly stating, "It’s unfortunate in this instance that ACC protocol of communicating directly with the home game management was not followed, and instead, a building security officer was solicited. We will re-communicate this policy with all officials to ensure proper protocol is followed."

I know he doesnt work in the same conference every night but going through game management is pretty standard practice. And it's not like we are talking about an obscure conference that Hess works a few times a year. This is the ACC. Hess should know their policies. A lot of us don't work for the same assignors all the time but are still expected to follow the policy of where ever we are on a given night.

Like I said before, as fellow officials we are inclined to give Hess the benefit of the doubt. But I don't think blind support is a good thing. Even the best of us make mistakes, have moments we'd do over, etc. IMHO based on the limited info I have, I think Hess made a regrettable decision. Easy for me to say, I know. But that's my opinion. And what is pretty factual is that Hess did not follow stated ACC policy and protocol in how he handled the decision.

JRutledge Mon Feb 20, 2012 01:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by VaTerp (Post 825901)
To say it was not clear just because it wasnt followed is false logic at its worst. My understanding is that the policy is on paper and it's clear enough that Clougherty feels comfortable publicly stating, "It’s unfortunate in this instance that ACC protocol of communicating directly with the home game management was not followed, and instead, a building security officer was solicited. We will re-communicate this policy with all officials to ensure proper protocol is followed."

I am saying that when you work in a different building or conference every night it is possible that a policy can be misunderstood and possibly defaulted to what the rule says. And there is a policy on this from the NCAA, not just in the conference. And just because they say something in a statement does not mean it is entirely true or accurate. Remember they are trying to convince the public, not the staff what they were doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VaTerp (Post 825901)
I know he doesnt work in the same conference every night but going through game management is pretty standard practice. And it's not like we are talking about an obscure conference that Hess works a few times a year. This is the ACC. Hess should know their policies. A lot of us don't work for the same assignors all the time but are still expected to follow the policy of where ever we are on a given night.

So where do you usually go to get game management? Hmmmmmmm, maybe the table? That is where I would go unless I had knowledge of other locations of GM. And what does "This is the ACC" mean? OK the man works in the Big East too. He works in a couple of other small conferences too. What point does that make? Have you ever been to these staff meeting to know what is discussed or not discussed? I cannot even make that claim so why would I automatically believe this "policy" was talked about in detail?

Quote:

Originally Posted by VaTerp (Post 825901)
Like I said before, as fellow officials we are inclined to give Hess the benefit of the doubt. But I don't think blind support is a good thing. Even the best of us make mistakes, have moments we'd do over, etc. IMHO based on the limited info I have, I think Hess made a regrettable decision. Easy for me to say, I know. But that's my opinion. And what is pretty factual is that Hess did not follow stated ACC policy and protocol in how he handled the decision.

To me it is not about giving Hess the benefit of the doubt. I know that when I go to GM, it is usually at the table. I know an official that works at a table in the Big Ten and is the liaison for officials at one of the schools and he sits at the table. These guys were right behind the table. If this took place in the corner somewhere, OK. And since I do not know all the details or the nature of the comments, I tend to not go jumping to conclusions I did not witness personally. And the conference commissioner is not the same as the conference supervisor and their might be come conflict in the information they are talking about as well. Again I have no idea, but let us not act like GM was never contact in the matter. If you do not like that Hess stood there I get that, but let us not act like GM is somewhere special in the arena. That really is all I am saying.

Peace

just another ref Mon Feb 20, 2012 01:31am

When the supervisor of officials for the conference says you "got it wrong" does anything else really matter?

JRutledge Mon Feb 20, 2012 01:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 825905)
When the supervisor of officials for the conference says you "got it wrong" does anything else really matter?

Let me ask you a question. Did Hess get suspended? If not why? ;)

I really do not care what he tells the public if nothing changes it must not have been seen as a big no, no as some would like to make it.

Peace

just another ref Mon Feb 20, 2012 01:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 825906)
Let me ask you a question. Did Hess get suspended? If not why? ;)

I really do not care what he tells the public if nothing changes it must not have been seen as a big no, no as some would like to make it.

Peace

Apparently it can be wrong, and not be a mistake worthy of a suspension.

JRutledge Mon Feb 20, 2012 02:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 825907)
Apparently it can be wrong, and not be a mistake worthy of a suspension.

I agree and I doubt that anyone really cares that much considering who Hess is and what he has accomplished. And at the end of the day, "Why did Hess do what he did?" The answer, "Because he can."

Peace

just another ref Mon Feb 20, 2012 02:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 825912)
I agree and I doubt that anyone really cares that much considering who Hess is and what he has accomplished. And at the end of the day, "Why did Hess do what he did?" The answer, "Because he can."

Peace

That is not a reason.

zm1283 Mon Feb 20, 2012 03:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 825912)
I agree and I doubt that anyone really cares that much considering who Hess is and what he has accomplished. And at the end of the day, "Why did Hess do what he did?" The answer, "Because he can."

Peace

So basically it has been proven that he didn't follow protocol, and your only defense has been "You weren't there", or "You haven't been in staff meetings", etc. We don't need to have been there or sat in staff meetings, we're going off of what the ACC coordinator said, which is that Hess didn't handle it properly. Then you just give the old "Because he can". I "can" go whack a coach in my game tomorrow right off the bat without them saying anything, but it doesn't mean that I'm right. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it is correct.

JRutledge Mon Feb 20, 2012 03:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 825914)
That is not a reason.

Actually it is. It might not be fair, but life is not fair.

Peace

JRutledge Mon Feb 20, 2012 03:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 825916)
So basically it has been proven that he didn't follow protocol, and your only defense has been "You weren't there", or "You haven't been in staff meetings", etc. We don't need to have been there or sat in staff meetings, we're going off of what the ACC coordinator said, which is that Hess didn't handle it properly. Then you just give the old "Because he can". I "can" go whack a coach in my game tomorrow right off the bat without them saying anything, but it doesn't mean that I'm right. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it is correct.

You obviously did not read this thread or my comments in total. We were talking about "we were not there" in the context of what comments got the fans/former players ejected and if they should have been ejected. That is a little different from what procedure was followed or not.

And also they said the procedure was not followed properly, not that it was Hess was totally wrong or that he did not have a reason to eject the fans. And the "Because I can" was in jest and sarcastic. Honestly there are people that can do things based on their background that others cannot. If you do not know that, then maybe you have not been around long enough. You should know how we have people that get upset over mechanics or signals that officials use not listed in the book and they do not lose anything for not following "protocol." Well that can apply here as well. Of course the ACC might not have been happy, but what are they going to do about it? And even stated that they need to re-communciate which to me means they did not do the job correctly the first time, so we have to tell everyone what that policy was to cover our behinds. If a policy is clear, then say "We made it clear to all officials what to do and Hess was wrong for not following them or ignoring them" No they have to re-communicate something that was "clear" right? Sounds to me they were not happy but not jumping off a bridge either because it was not followed to the letter.

Honestly this is much to do about nothing in the end. I have seen fans ejected the same way in HS and small college games without someone going to GM to do the dirty work. Not something I recommend, but I have seen it done and no one got upset or made a public statement.

Peace

bowlingref Mon Feb 20, 2012 06:39am

Hess Is A Shrink
 
Karl Hess is a shrink and his office is about 5 miles away for me. If you guys will take up a collection, I will go by and let him tell me during a mental session what was said. $150 an hour during the the off season is what he charges. Office closed November to April.:)

BillyMac Mon Feb 20, 2012 07:39am

You're Outta Here ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 825829)
We as officials are instructed to remove problems from the stands.

Here in my little corner of Connecticut, we are instructed to have the problems removed from the stands. I would never give an unruly fan the old baseball "You're Outta Here" heave-ho signal. Nor have I ever observed any official use this signal in regard to a fan situation in over thirty years of officiating high school basketball. Of course, I've never officiated an NCAA Division I game, so I really shouldn't comment on what goes on with the "big boys".

26 Year Gap Mon Feb 20, 2012 08:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdf (Post 825890)
Corchiani also admitted in his tweets that they always get on the officials. But then complained that they were embarrassed in front of their children.
Gugliotta showed his maturity by tipping his cap to the crowd as he was leaving.

Fine example they set for their kids.

If they hadn't been acting like jackasses in the first place, their children might not have been embarrassed. In fact, it is very possible that their behavior up until the ejection was MORE embarrassing.

asdf Mon Feb 20, 2012 09:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 825955)
If they hadn't been acting like jackasses in the first place, their children might not have been embarrassed. In fact, it is very possible that their behavior up until the ejection was MORE embarrassing.

Exactly !!

Add the embarrassing comments by AD Yow.... and you see what's deemed acceptable in Raleigh.

26 Year Gap Mon Feb 20, 2012 09:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdf (Post 825960)
Exactly !!

Add the embarrassing comments by AD Yow.... and you see what's deemed acceptable in Raleigh.

I wouldn't paint with a broad brush here. Certainly, they were surprising comments. What WOULD be interesting would be an ESPN article that chronicles TFs of those two dolts from HS through the end of their careers. But, that would be too much work.

26 Year Gap Mon Feb 20, 2012 09:45am

Here is an interesting article on the event
 
NCAA Referee's Ejection of Fans Belies a Greater Problem with Sports Culture | Bleacher Report

truerookie Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:15am

Now that the background has come to light. What have I learned from this interaction with individuals on this board.

1. They love their fellow officials. :D

2. They believe because of your (stature, experience, and reputation) it gives you a free pass to do whatever you want. Because you know others will not challenge you on your behavior. :rolleyes:

3. They will attack you personally when you don't see things their way. :mad:

4. Once it's confirmed they are wrong, they still try to spin it to make you believe you are still wrong. ;)

5. The discussions on the forum are enlightening and gives you a different perspective on how others view not only officiating but society as a whole. I personally may not agree with others at times. I take what they say into consideration. :)

Adam Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 825979)
Now that the background has come to light. What have I learned from this interaction with individuals on this board.

1. They love their fellow officials. :D

2. They believe because of your (stature, experience, and reputation) it gives you a free pass to do whatever you want. Because you know others will not challenge you on your behavior. :rolleyes:

3. They will attack you personally when you don't see things their way. :mad:

4. Once it's confirmed they are wrong, they still try to spin it to make you believe you are still wrong. ;)

5. The discussions on the forum are enlightening and gives you a different perspective on how others view not only officiating but society as a whole. I personally may not agree with others at times. I take what they say into consideration. :)

How big of you to take the high road. :rolleyes:

I just can't find evidence for 2-4 in this thread.

2: No one said he got a free pass, but the benefit of the doubt until more evidence came to light. It was also noted that he can get away with things that other, newer officials with less built-up credibility can.

3. I didn't see any personal attacks against you. A few face palms, perhaps, but no personal attacks. If you took it that way, you've got thinner skin than some have accused Hess of having.

4. This is just ridiculous, but if you could point to a post in this thread where someone spins obvious evidence against their opinion, I'll be happy to silently consider it.

But apparently it makes you feel better to dump on officials to boost your ego. Just like a middle school crowd, but I'm ok with that, and I'm done.

Welpe Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:54am

42. He may not have handled it per procedure but there's still nothing to suggest he was wrong to have them removed. :cool:

Edited to add obligatory smiley.

rwest Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:27am

Death and life are in the power of the tongue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 825813)
1. You don't know what I know.

2. Physical threats are the only things i would concern myself with.

3. Yep, I expected that mindset.

I agree with Snaqwells. It is a stupid saying. Tell a kid who has grown up with a verbally abusive parent, that words don't hurt. They do!

Death and life are in the power of the tongue.... Proverbs 18:21

mean Gene Mon Feb 20, 2012 01:31pm

Mr Hess is a dentist, I guess he got tired of the bull that the 2 All Stars were putting out. I think that Ms Yow needs to worry about her fans as Mr Hess has call several final fours and knows what he is doing. Shame on Ms Yow, she is a piece of work in the wrong direction!

jmwking Mon Feb 20, 2012 01:35pm

There appear to be more witnesses to the event beyond Hess, Yow, and the two former players: There are at least a couple people sitting at the scorers' table with ACC vests on. I'd love to hear what they had to say - and I image Clougherty has.

I doubt we'll ever have a fuller accounting, though, so we'll be left speculating and second guessing and presuming the best or worst of the individuals involved.

Wellmer Mon Feb 20, 2012 01:45pm

Do you think Karl will be working the ceremonial NC State game coming up? Doubt it:D

Judtech Mon Feb 20, 2012 02:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mean Gene (Post 826033)
Mr Hess is a dentist, I guess he got tired of the bull that the 2 All Stars were putting out. I think that Ms Yow needs to worry about her fans as Mr Hess has call several final fours and knows what he is doing. Shame on Ms Yow, she is a piece of work in the wrong direction!

He is not a dentist. He is a therapist

BillyMac Mon Feb 20, 2012 02:26pm

It's Possible ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Judtech (Post 826056)
He is not a dentist. He is a therapist

Maybe he's a therapeutic dentist?

Rich Mon Feb 20, 2012 03:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 826060)
Maybe he's a therapeutic dentist?

My favorite comments are from NC State fans (who knew they existed) who blindly take the word of the losers, umm, legends who come to every game and heckle the fans over the official when nobody knows the full story.

tomegun Mon Feb 20, 2012 03:59pm

I'm not sure what kind of Doctor he is, but he is some kind. I met him several years ago and he seems like an OK guy to me.

He has been around for some time and what my seem like comments that aren't over the line may have had something to do with things that happened when those two were playing. Just a suggestion; like everyone else, I don't really know.

The ACC is his primary conference - he meets the requirements to be in the highest tier. He may or may not have known about the official procedure, but he is also human. I asked one of my friends what happened in a high profile game earlier this year and after he told me he said he wasn't going to pass judgement because things could happen to any of us...I don't think this is going to cause Mr. Hess to lose any games or sleep.

JRutledge Mon Feb 20, 2012 04:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 826091)
I don't think this is going to cause Mr. Hess to lose any games or sleep.

And when you have been working as long as he has at that level, I am sure that is the case for many of these situations.

Peace

dahoopref Mon Feb 20, 2012 09:34pm

Hess repremanded by ACC
 
FYI

ACC reprimands official after ejection of Chris Corchiani, Tom Gugliotta - ESPN

26 Year Gap Mon Feb 20, 2012 09:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahoopref (Post 826186)

Hess started iin the ACC in 1987. Wonder if he ever Teed up those two clowns. For the first time EVER, I will root for Carolina against NC State. Certainly hope officials will ALWAYS know where game management is in that venue. Something tells me those two dolts will push the envelope.

JRutledge Mon Feb 20, 2012 09:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 826192)
Hess started iin the ACC in 1987. Wonder if he ever Teed up those two clowns. For the first time EVER, I will root for Carolina against NC State. Certainly hope officials will ALWAYS know where game management is in that venue. Something tells me those two dolts will push the envelope.

I love the denial for their actions. They know what they said and they know what they did. Maybe they are that stupid as they did go to NC State for that matter.

Peace

Rich Mon Feb 20, 2012 09:57pm

I love the comments on the ESPN article. As if any of those a$$clowns have any clue about officiating...

26 Year Gap Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 826196)
I love the comments on the ESPN article. As if any of those a$$clowns have any clue about officiating...

They are all morons. I rarely watch ESPN unless I am watching the EPL game of the week.

justacoach Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 825979)
Now that the background has come to light. What have I learned from this interaction with individuals on this board.

1. They love their fellow officials. :D

2. They believe because of your (stature, experience, and reputation) it gives you a free pass to do whatever you want. Because you know others will not challenge you on your behavior. :rolleyes:

3. They will attack you personally when you don't see things their way. :mad:

4. Once it's confirmed they are wrong, they still try to spin it to make you believe you are still wrong. ;)

5. The discussions on the forum are enlightening and gives you a different perspective on how others view not only officiating but society as a whole. I personally may not agree with others at times. I take what they say into consideration. :)

Does this mean you'll be leaving this board???
(Where is that ignore button thingy?)

BktBallRef Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 825916)
So basically it has been proven that he didn't follow protocol, and your only defense has been "You weren't there", or "You haven't been in staff meetings", etc. We don't need to have been there or sat in staff meetings, we're going off of what the ACC coordinator said, which is that Hess didn't handle it properly. Then you just give the old "Because he can". I "can" go whack a coach in my game tomorrow right off the bat without them saying anything, but it doesn't mean that I'm right. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it is correct.

He didn't follow the proper procedure. Big flip. Nowhere did they say that he was wrong in ejecting the two. They simply said he should have had game management do it instead of security.

BTW, the ACC also said the two had been previously warned by a security guard at the end of the FSU bench that if they continued to walk up behind the scorer's table and demonstrate regarding calls, they would be ejcted.

Brad Tue Feb 21, 2012 02:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 826204)
BTW, the ACC also said the two had been previously warned by a security guard at the end of the FSU bench that if they continued to walk up behind the scorer's table and demonstrate regarding calls, they would be ejcted.

Exactly. I guarantee you it wasn't just about what they "said" ... it was what they were doing. If you are seated behind the scorer's table you can't interfere with what is going on. Sounds to me like they were being a huge distraction, were warned, didn't want to comply, and were ejected.

Do you think if it was two students at the school or two random people attending the game this would have even made ESPN? Doubt it.

The quote in this article tells me all I need to know:

"We're not denying we were all over him, but I've been doing that every game I've been at since I retired," said Corchiani, who said he attends just about every NC State game. "That's homecourt advantage."

No, Chris, that's douchebaggery.

JetMetFan Tue Feb 21, 2012 02:47am

NC State's Rules for Fans
 
Just for kicks, the following is in the NC State Basketball Fan guide for the 2011-12 Season...

NC State Sportsmanship Initiative
Promoting first-class conduct from all those associated with NC State has always been the goal of the athletics department. Coaches, players, fans, staff, spirit groups, and students are all ambassadors for the University at sporting events.
We all share the responsibility of promoting good sportsmanship at games and ensuring that the next generations of Wolfpackers learn the proper way to support their team.
The “Wolfpack in the House” sportsmanship campaign is your guide to helping
create a positive and enthusiastic “game-day” atmosphere. We want everyone to understand their role in creating home court advantage, but more importantly, realizing the responsibility we all share in representing NC State and respecting all fans’ right to have fun and enjoy themselves.

Let your actions represent the best of NC State
NC State is one of the top research institutions in the country, and our alumni
and fans reflect that caliber of program
Respect our visitors and game official
Regardless of the outcome of the game, we can still show pride for our
university through our interactions with guests.
Cheer loudly, but with appropriate language
Profanity or vulgarity can be as detrimental to game atmosphere as cheering
support to your team is beneficial to it, make the right choice
Respect fellow Wolfpackers - especially young fans
The future of NC State is sitting in the stands today, our children will represent the university for years to come, let’s get them started out on the right foot.
Be positive in your support of our team, coaches, and players
There is no good reason to degrade the teams on the court, instead celebrate
the game that is taking place in front of you.

truerookie Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by justacoach (Post 826202)
Does this mean you'll be leaving this board???
(Where is that ignore button thingy?)

Nope, I am not going anywhere.

Dont wait too long to hit that ignore button thingy.

Adam Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by justacoach (Post 826202)
Does this mean you'll be leaving this board???
(Where is that ignore button thingy?)

No, because it's far more fulfilling to stick around and look down on us group thinkers from his high horse.

Rich Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 826221)
Just for kicks, the following is in the NC State Basketball Fan guide for the 2011-12 Season...

NC State Sportsmanship Initiative
Promoting first-class conduct from all those associated with NC State has always been the goal of the athletics department. Coaches, players, fans, staff, spirit groups, and students are all ambassadors for the University at sporting events.
We all share the responsibility of promoting good sportsmanship at games and ensuring that the next generations of Wolfpackers learn the proper way to support their team.
The “Wolfpack in the House” sportsmanship campaign is your guide to helping
create a positive and enthusiastic “game-day” atmosphere. We want everyone to understand their role in creating home court advantage, but more importantly, realizing the responsibility we all share in representing NC State and respecting all fans’ right to have fun and enjoy themselves.

Let your actions represent the best of NC State
NC State is one of the top research institutions in the country, and our alumni
and fans reflect that caliber of program
Respect our visitors and game official
Regardless of the outcome of the game, we can still show pride for our
university through our interactions with guests.
Cheer loudly, but with appropriate language
Profanity or vulgarity can be as detrimental to game atmosphere as cheering
support to your team is beneficial to it, make the right choice
Respect fellow Wolfpackers - especially young fans
The future of NC State is sitting in the stands today, our children will represent the university for years to come, let’s get them started out on the right foot.
Be positive in your support of our team, coaches, and players
There is no good reason to degrade the teams on the court, instead celebrate
the game that is taking place in front of you.

This is the same stuff they read over the loudspeaker at HS games just before the fans act like idiots. They should just not bother reading it at all or make it as quick as my captains' meeting.

VaTerp Tue Feb 21, 2012 01:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 826204)
.
BTW, the ACC also said the two had been previously warned by a security guard at the end of the FSU bench that if they continued to walk up behind the scorer's table and demonstrate regarding calls, they would be ejcted.

Actually, the ACC said that the "the policeman at the end of the FSU bench was warned that their continual excessive demonstration that incited the crowd would result in ejection."

I wonder if that warning was communicated to the two former players.

fiasco Tue Feb 21, 2012 01:50pm

My take:

Justification: We'll probably never know the exact reason Hess decided to pull the trigger. But, like others here I'm willing to give Hess the benefit of the doubt. If you're a veteran D1 official, I'd have to think you don't stick your neck out like this without good reason. I do find it laughable that Corchiani and Googs are claiming they said nothing more than "you're not doing a very good job out there." Considering that they went to Twitter moments after the incident, they've been able to frame the incident exactly in a way that absolves them of any responsibility. They've won the PR fight by a landslide.

Execution: This is where Hess failed miserably, and he's received the necessary slap on the wrist for it. Who knows if he'll miss postseason games as a result. You don't give the heave ho like he did. You don't interact with said fans like he did. Say nothing to the fan(s), go directly to game management (or the closest thing resembling game management) and let them take care of it.

BillyMac Tue Feb 21, 2012 01:54pm

You Are Outta Here ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fiasco (Post 826341)
You don't give the heave ho like he did.

Does he work baseball games in the off season?

Brad Tue Feb 21, 2012 02:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiasco (Post 826341)
Who knows if he'll miss postseason games as a result.

I'd bet good money against it. I doubt he will miss a single game for the rest of the season, let alone the post-season.


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