Whoa! I dont want to work in those states.

There's no conflict when you understand when it is a player becomes bench personnel.

IMO, if you know enough that to know a certain act is a T than you need to know whether it's direct or indirect. It's an indication that you are getting your rules knowledge from hearsay or what have seen when watching games instead of getting the knowledge from the rule book.

I believe you said you are working HS varsity games, right? If you are, knowledge of what is an direct or indirect T should be basic.

There's also the other addage, If you can't enforce it then don't call it.

I have worked with a guy that didn't pass the open book test, he was passed due to a shortage of officials. I have heard of guys that didn't pass the test as well.

To acquire the classification to do varsity is closed book and a mechanics test. No mechanics test required for first years though.( the aforementioned guy wouldn't of passed that either.

Suspect away I guess... :rolleyes:

Again I understand my first post was incorrect. My line of thinking was that the disqualified player was bench personnel which the HC is ultimately responsible for and therefore would be given an indirect T. Since then I have learned (which is the reason we having these discussions) that it is actually a direct T. I greatly appreciate the poster who posted the applicable rule earlier in this conversation.

Now if you want to sit here and argue that the above is what you consider "basic knowledge" that's fine I guess, but it's something we are going to have to disagree about. I've worked roughly 40 official dates a year (most of which are double headers) including two full seasons of varsity assignments as part of a 3 man crew, and a little bit of D3 college JV action and I have yet to encounter this situation, or anything remotely close to it occurring. That doesn't include the multiple officials camps and youth tournaments in which I frequently work 5-8 games per date. I'm aware that pales to the experience some of you likely have but that doesn't change the fact that I haven't seen it in three years, and therefore I don't consider that something "basic". I'm thankful I'm learning the finer points about my avocation here as opposed to on the court after I've screwed them up.

Lastly I'm glad you have, and are confident in, a solid foundation of rulebook knowledge. That's a great thing to have as strength. One of my partners also has an encyclopedic knowledge of the book, and he pulls our *** out of the fire once or twice a year. My personal strength is in game management and comes from my background of 12 years as a player (10 years as a youth and HS standout and 2 years as a division 2 benchwarmer) and 13 years as a coach. Personally there is no greater comfort than knowing there is no behavior that goes on in game, either on the floor or on the bench, which I can't handle. That's something that can't be learned from a rule book.

Rulebook knowledge is a tremendous asset, but it’s not the only asset, and it alone doesn’t make you a great official. Please understand I am in no way implying that you don’t also have game management skills.

I hope you have also learned under the OP that there shouldn't of been a T to start with.

Absolutely. I was also shocked to learn that if the player attempts to re-enter after being disqualified that it was up to the discretion of the officials on whether to access a T at all.

Do you know WHY its direct to him?
If a teammember on the bench calls you a frickin idiot, what type of T is that?

Guess we'll have to disagree then, big time! You must live in SoCal :D

Not only is it "tremendous" it is also the FOUNDATION which everything else is built upon!! I agree, I've worked with some guys that know their rules but still cant call Lassie.

No one said otherwise.

Unless you hear the coach say something like, "Go in anyway -- that last foul was a crappy call so you shouldn't have been DQ'd", it's not going to be a T. So, while the case does allow discretion, in 99.99% of the cases, it's not going to be needed, and not going to be a T if detected prior to the ball becoming live.

An uneccesary one?

For the attempt, sure. But if they make it in, there's no discretion in the case play.

You're not calling that?

Ohh I'm calling it, I just meant his actions were not necessary, even if I were a frickin idiot.

Gotcha.

Seriously though...