What do you have in this situation?

[curtstrouth]

Player A1 is dribbling the ball and attempts to pass to A2. In the process of the pass the ball slips through both hands, returns the floor and A1 is the first to recover it. Is this a double dribble or a muff? I have heard debates both ways but my interpretation of the rule is that once you initiate a dribble and two hands touch the ball and the ball returns to the floor it is a double dribble correct? Looking for clarification. THANKS!

[APG]

If you believe the loss of control is due to a fumble, then it is legal to recover as it is always legal to recover fumble...no matter if the ball hit the floor or not.

[kwatson]

If I read this correctly and he just recovered it and did not continue to dribble then it cant be a double dribble. As far as the other part I am not sure by the description if it would be considered a "muf' or not. Will have to wait for the others on that part.

[Raymond]

Slips through whose hands, A1 or A2.

If it's A1 then it is a muff and he may recover but not dribble.

If A1 passed the ball and it went through A2's hands and A1 recovered then we have an illegal dribble.

[curtstrouth]

The muff was by player A1.

So anytime you as a ref determine it as a muff it is a not called unless after the muff the player resumes another dribble correct?

[kwatson]

Correct

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by curtstrouth

The muff was by player A1.

So anytime you as a ref determine it as a muff it is a not called unless after the muff the player resumes another dribble correct?

Correct. I'm not sure anything other than "Three seconds!!!" is more commonly objected to by coaches and fans during a game.

[curtstrouth]

Thanks for the clarification on this rule. In 10 years of officiating we have never seen this play happen more than during this season.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by curtstrouth

Thanks for the clarification on this rule. In 10 years of officiating we have never seen this play happen more than during this season.

I see it all the time in varsity games. Maybe players here are just worse at handling the ball.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Correct. I'm not sure anything other than "Three seconds!!!" is more commonly objected to by coaches and fans during a game.

High dribbles

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

High dribbles

And the entire gym let's out a collective "Oh!!!" when there is no whistle on a high dribble. I cringe when my partner whistles a high dribble.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

High dribbles

Palming or carrying is when the ball comes to rest in the player's hand, and the player either travels with the ball, or dribbles a second time. There is no restriction as to how high a player may bounce the ball, provided the ball does not come to rest in a player’s hand. Steps taken during a dribble are not traveling, including several that are sometimes taken when a high dribble takes place. It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Slips through whose hands, A1 or A2.

If it's A1 then it is a muff and he may recover but not dribble.

If A1 passed the ball and it went through A2's hands and A1 recovered then we have an illegal dribble.

Agree on the first point, but not on the second. Once A2 touched the pass, A1 can recover and dribble.

The key in the play is determining whether it was a fumble or a pass. If it was a fumble, then it can be recovered, but A1 has already used his dribble and any further dribble would be a violation. If it was a pass, then it becomes a dribble (and a violation) when A1 is the first to touch it after it hits the floor. (And if it was a pass, but A1 caught it before it hits the floor, it's a violation if the pivot foot moved.)

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Agree on the first point, but not on the second. Once A2 touched the pass, A1 can recover and dribble.

.

I was assuming A2 had not touched the ball and had missed the pass.

[tref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

the key in the play is determining whether it was a fumble or a pass.

+1