Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 813826)

On a side note, in what state was this game played. I dig the gray officiating shirts.

MTD, Sr.

Originally Posted by IUgrad92 (Post 813949)

.... If you pause it there, you cannot see the ball, W24's hands, or B24's left hand that is swiping down. Maybe she got all ball??? We can't tell, L can't see it, C doesn't have the best angle either.
....

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 813992)

Actually I said it was unclear and I was not alone in saying that. Again, if you want to call a flagrant foul, good for you. I honestly do not care or would not object to your judgment.
Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 813992)

But they obviously did not agree with you right? They obviously did not call a flagrant right? And since it was so clear to you on a tape looking at a strightlined view, they obviously had likely a better angle than you did and came to some conclusion other than what you and a few with the benefit of replay and watching over and over the officials seemed to not have.
Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 813992)

I will say it this way, you are flat out wrong. You are wrong because if a player was trying to get their arm free and inadvertently hit someone in the face, head or chest is different than throwing a punch out of anger. If it was not the case than the NCAA would not have officials look at the monitor for plays like this in the first place. And unlike the NCAA these guys did not get replay or other angles to help them make the call. And younger officials need to also realize that if they make the wrong ruling in someone's eyes, they might be subjected to not working certain games or be perceived as not having good judgment. We can debate this tape all day like we did the last one on flagrant fouls and even in that one there were opinions all over the place on what was or what was not flagrant. It does matter everything that takes place because it might tell the story as to if this was a punch or just a reaction to being held. I have been around long enough in my local area to hear about an official that overreacted to a situation only to later be taken off games or banned from a conference because they did not use "good judgment." Just because I think what happen first matters to the reaction on some level is not unusual in officiating and why the officials talked in this situation. If it was clear, they would have not needed to talk.
Peace

Originally Posted by IUgrad92 (Post 814305)

Actually, in post #3 you said "I guess it depends if you consider the ball handler to throw a punch. But there was some contact before that, so based on the angle I cannot say that was the case with confidence." Sounds like you thought it was clear at that point. So with the same angle you have contact by B24, but can't tell if W24 pushed or punched. :confused:

Originally Posted by IUgrad92 (Post 814305)

Which official had a better angle?

Originally Posted by IUgrad92 (Post 814305)

My advice to players is if you are trying to get your arm free, you better be pulling your arm towards your own body and not pushing it towards anyone else. Otherwise you're asking for trouble. The whole "get off me" thing has gone over the top and is only causing problems, imho.

Originally Posted by IUgrad92 (Post 814305)

I think we all need to be reminded that we all can be videotaped at any time and it can be on the internet. Non-basketball plays need to be caught and dealt with properly and correctly. I think the majority of us take in to consideration on what happened first, in regards to a reaction, as long as the reaction is a basketball play. If the reaction is non-basketball in nature, then I don't care what happened first.

Originally Posted by IUgrad92 (Post 814305)

Maybe it wasn't clear to the crew because none of them saw it. ;)

I'm done. Good luck in the state tournament Jeff.

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 813992)

Actually I said it was unclear and I was not alone in saying that. Again, if you want to call a flagrant foul, good for you. I honestly do not care or would not object to your judgment.



OK it is clear. :rolleyes:



But they obviously did not agree with you right? They obviously did not call a flagrant right? And since it was so clear to you on a tape looking at a strightlined view, they obviously had likely a better angle than you did and came to some conclusion other than what you and a few with the benefit of replay and watching over and over the officials seemed to not have.



I will say it this way, you are flat out wrong. You are wrong because if a player was trying to get their arm free and inadvertently hit someone in the face, head or chest is different than throwing a punch out of anger. If it was not the case than the NCAA would not have officials look at the monitor for plays like this in the first place. And unlike the NCAA these guys did not get replay or other angles to help them make the call. And younger officials need to also realize that if they make the wrong ruling in someone's eyes, they might be subjected to not working certain games or be perceived as not having good judgment. We can debate this tape all day like we did the last one on flagrant fouls and even in that one there were opinions all over the place on what was or what was not flagrant. It does matter everything that takes place because it might tell the story as to if this was a punch or just a reaction to being held. I have been around long enough in my local area to hear about an official that overreacted to a situation only to later be taken off games or banned from a conference because they did not use "good judgment." Just because I think what happen first matters to the reaction on some level is not unusual in officiating and why the officials talked in this situation. If it was clear, they would have not needed to talk.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 813708)

There is no "mechanic." As kind of illustrated when someone is ejecting someone from the game they verbalize the action and give the "heave ho" signal on some level. Again nothing mechanically to make that clear, but you need to make it clear that someone is not coming back into the game.

At the table I give the "thumb" signal like you used to see from really old-time baseball umpires.

Peace

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 814315)

A similar thing should happen if an official under reacts and leaves a kid in the game who should've been ejected on a flagrant, right?

I will agree with what you said with respect to a held arm and the reaction. We had a player throw an elbow the other night that did not land and the other coach was all over us. Of course, the opposing player had grabbed hold of the arm in an effort to get to the ball and the reaction was to try to free himself from the hold. Just what I told the coach, too. Maybe he didn't like that, but then again, approximately half the people in those types of situations don't like what we say either.

Off to do a game. Assignment 2 of 6 this week. I like being busy.

Originally Posted by constable (Post 814344)

6 assignments in a week is busy? Out of curiosity how many games do you do a year?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 814345)

6 of 7 days isn't busy to you?

Originally Posted by constable (Post 814380)

I work rotating 12 hour shifts, so I don't work nearly as much as some people but it isn't uncommon me to work 4 high school league assignments (Jv and V double headers) through the week and then another 5-6 double headers on the weekend.....

Originally Posted by constable (Post 814344)

6 assignments in a week is busy? Out of curiosity how many games do you do a year?

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 814383)

Most definitely busy for me. Just realized I have 7 games this week.

Originally Posted by Lcubed48 (Post 814414)

When is the BNR road show coming to the River City?

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 814574)

Won't know that until around June. I heard rumor that your new commissioner has been named, is that true?