Last Second Debacle?

[stripes2255]

Looking for some opinions on whether my partner and I handled an end of game situation correctly or not. Holiday Tournament 2-man crew, 3 point game with 5.3 seconds left. Team behind throwing the ball inbounds front court end line. I am the trail and the inbounds pass goes to a player in my primary who then passes to a shooter that misses the shot, gets the rebound and passes is out for another 3 point shot that goes in at the buzzer.

The defensive team complains that the clock did not start when the first offensive player caught the ball. My partner and I speak with the clock keeper who says he agrees that it didn’t start on time but doesn’t know how much time elapsed before he did start it. My partner and I don’t know how much time elapsed either so off to OT we go. Did we do this correctly by allowing the three point shot?

A couple thoughts, usually I may peek to see if the clock starts in that situation but the initial offensive player was dangerously close to the three point line and I wanted to make sure he wasn’t on the line if he took the shot. Also, after we got into the locker room my partner says that he noticed the clock hadn’t started after the pass was being made to the first three point try. If he would have stopped it then, what options do we have here? Start the play over at 5.3 seconds or run off the necessary time and inbound the ball at POI?

In the end the team up by three to start this whole mess won easily in OT so I felt like there was a bullet dodged but looking for opinions to handle a situation I hope doesn’t happen again. Sorry for this being lengthy but felt I needed to get all of the info explained properly.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Since neither you,your partner,nor the clock operator have definite knowledge of how late the clock started after first contact then you go with what you know-in this case that means overtime.For part 2 you would resume at POI but with no time off since nobody has an idea of how much time elapsed.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

For part 2 you would resume at POI but with no time off since nobody has an idea of how much time elapsed.

Let's say the shot is in the air, but you noticed the clock never started. If you were to blow the play dead, would the POI force you to go to the arrow (no team control), or is there any way we can rule the POI to be at the initial throw-in at 5.3 seconds? Or, would it be better to hold the whistle until someone controls the rebound?

[Toren]

If either one of you had a closely guarded count started, you could use that as definite knowledge in your second scenario. Meaning if your partner had blown his whistle, you could have run off that time and proceeded with POI.

However, with so much to look at and it being so quick, doesn't sound like there was any count started.

So you did it properly. Sometimes things just happen

[Toren]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Let's say the shot is in the air, but you noticed the clock never started. If you were to blow the play dead, would the POI force you to go to the arrow (no team control), or is there any way we can rule the POI to be at the initial throw-in at 5.3 seconds? Or, would it be better to hold the whistle until someone controls the rebound?

Since the shot missed the POI is the AP arrow. Had the shot gone in the POI would be end line throw in. There was another thread where we hit this topic pretty hard, don't recall off hand which one though.

[Lotto]

In a case like this, if I'm T (responsible for the last second shot), I'm counting off in my head so that if I take a peak at the clock and notice that it didn't start, I have definite knowledge. Counting like that has served me well on multiple occasions...

[Tio]

If there is any learning from this it is to pregame the end of game clock situation. One of you needed to have the clock in this situation - I don't know how you guys can still work 2-man in Oregon. Most likely the lead as it sounds like you as trail had the ball.

Since you didn't have definite knowledge as to the time that elapsed before the clock was started, there is nothing you can do.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Lotto

In a case like this, if I'm T (responsible for the last second shot), I'm counting off in my head so that if I take a peak at the clock and notice that it didn't start, I have definite knowledge. Counting like that has served me well on multiple occasions...

+1.

On this play, the L should've taken a look at the clock once the ball was inbounded to the T's primary, too.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

+1.

On this play, the L should've taken a look at the clock once the ball was inbounded to the T's primary, too.

Okay, so let's talk about how this works, exactly.

Let's say I'm L and my T is inbounding. 3 seconds on the clock. I see the T chop, and I look and the clock doesn't start.....now what do I do?

Start counting in my head? What happens when I reach zero in my head? Do I blow my whistle and call the play dead? What if the ball is in the air on a shot when my self count reaches zero?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Okay, so let's talk about how this works, exactly.

Let's say I'm L and my T is inbounding. 3 seconds on the clock. I see the T chop, and I look and the clock doesn't start.....now what do I do?


Start counting in my head? What happens when I reach zero in my head? Do I blow my whistle and call the play dead? What if the ball is in the air on a shot when my self count reaches zero?

You kill the play once you see the clock didn't start and start over.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You kill the play once you see the clock didn't start and start over.

Even if the ball is in the air on a try and it goes in? Cancel the basket?

[Tio]

No... you kill the play immediately after the ball is inbounded before the team can shoot. If you do not recognize the clock is stuck until a player is in the shooting motion, I would withhold the whistle.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Even if the ball is in the air on a try and it goes in? Cancel the basket?

No. I would think that you would know that if the shot is in the air when you blow the whistle, you do not cancel the basket.

You asked "Let's say I'm L and my T is inbounding. 3 seconds on the clock. I see the T chop, and I look and the clock doesn't start.....now what do I do?"

I answered, "You kill the play once you see the clock didn't start and start over."

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

No. I would think that you would know that if the shot is in the air when you blow the whistle, you do not cancel the basket.

You asked "Let's say I'm L and my T is inbounding. 3 seconds on the clock. I see the T chop, and I look and the clock doesn't start.....now what do I do?"

I answered, "You kill the play once you see the clock didn't start and start over."

Yes, I'm aware that a whistle doesn't cancel a shot attempt, but you said "kill the play." When you say "kill the play," to me that means kill the basket as well.

[refiator]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Okay, so let's talk about how this works, exactly.

Let's say I'm L and my T is inbounding. 3 seconds on the clock. I see the T chop, and I look and the clock doesn't start.....now what do I do?

Start counting in my head? What happens when I reach zero in my head? Do I blow my whistle and call the play dead? What if the ball is in the air on a shot when my self count reaches zero?

At .3. I hold my whistle. Blowing the play dead is a moot point. If the ball is caught, blow your whistle then and end the game. If it is tipped/tapped, the games ends on the made or missed tip/tap.