question on rule

[wizard]

Are we still discussing how to call playground fouls or how the NBA calls fouls in the post?

Nothing against the NBA officials, but the NBA is part sport/part ENTERTAINMENT.

Move on.

[jentzd]

To ChuckElias

I will take your end answer as partially correct. If the defensive player never uses his hands, he will never be called for a foul. I fully agree with this. However, EVERY rulebook, aside from NCAA womens basketball, allows some partial use of the hands (degrees vary). In NO rulebook is it made specifically clear exactly what is legal and what is not legal. I want to defend to the maximum of what is legal.

I would add one thing - you are arguing from the perspective of an official, arguing for/against the role of the official. This thread (at least as I intended it) is not about the official's role at all. It is to be argued from the prospective of a lawyer. How is a rule (law) to be interpretted? This is why Tower (as correct or incorrect as it may be) does not apply here.

To AK ref SE
I unequivocally agree 100% with your post. The Advantage/Disadvantage is a good general rule to follow. I think everyone would agree its main problem is vagueness. In *this* case both offensive player and defensive player are being advantaged and disadvantaged at the same time - even worse, by the same set of actions.

To Wizard
No, this has nothing to do with the NBA. Its origin is quite opposite - a 1on1 refless asphalt pickup game.

-Dave

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by jentzd
However, EVERY rulebook, aside from NCAA womens basketball, allows some partial use of the hands (degrees vary).

Please site the NFHS rules that allows you to place your hands on an opposing player.

[jentzd]

ok ok. i've only started researching this problem 6 weeks ago, but i've read about 6-8 rulebooks all the way though(from the internet).

I can't actually speak for EVERY rulebook, just the 6-8 I've read.

I would - however - LOVE to read every rule book. I have only found 6-8 rulebooks on the internet however, NFHS not being one of them.

Here is one of the more interesting posts I've found - from NCAA men's.

http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/baske...bulletin3.html

Reading between the lines on this memorandum lends me to believe that while offensive player backing in is illegal, and not called - defensive players using equal force to keep them physically from coming in is OK, as how can there be a foul on an action that was a response to a foul to begin with? But again, this is interpretation, never stated explicitly in an actual rulebook.
-David Jentz

[mick]

Originally posted by jentzd
...However, EVERY rulebook, aside from NCAA womens basketball, allows some partial use of the hands (degrees vary). In NO rulebook is it made specifically clear exactly what is legal and what is not legal. I want to defend to the maximum of what is legal.

.

jentzd,
You need the whole package of information. You need the Tower Philosophy, you need the bulletins published.
Hit the link below to see an example of why the reality of the above statements is incorrect when you confine your knowledge to only the rulebooks.
mick

http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/baske...ppt/sld050.htm