Illegal Substitute?
 

4th quarter girls varsity game last night. Player #15 commits a foul that my partner has a whistle on. He goes and reports the foul and then the coach asks for a timeout. My partner grants the full timeout. All players go to their respective benches. The score table calls my partner over and informs him that player #15 is not in the book.

I have a few thoughts go through my head: We're in a timeout, so as long as coach doesn't play her again, we don't penalize the team a technical...wait, we have to penalize because she committed a foul, so the coach has to add her to the book at a price of a technical. Hmm, not really sure.

So we go with what everyone expected. A technical.

After the game, partner and I both pull out books and we find case play 3.2.2 situation c (I don't currently have my book, so I hope I'm remembering that case play correctly). But it basically states, during an intermission the scorer identify's that a player was not listed in the book and the ruling is we don't penalize as long as that player doesn't re enter.

Did we administer correctly? or was this an "exception" because we granted the timeout already? or perhaps a different reason?

Still a T.

Thanks for the quick response. Is that because she committed a foul? Therefore, the coach has to add that player to the book?

The T here is for adding a team member to the book & its penalized when it occurs. Since the player committed a foul, I believe they have to be added.

Who was the R & you know how to prevent this, right?

My partner was the R. I assume you mean prior to the jump ball, but the JV game ended late and the varsity teams had exactly 10 minutes to warm up. So my partner went to check on the book at 10 but it wasn't close to ready, we did captain and coaches meetings, still not ready.

The book wasn't officially ready until something like 2 minutes prior to the game. So I'm sure this was exactly why it occured. But given the situation, I'm not sure what else the R could have done.

1. ALWAYS count the players on the floor & in the bench area, whenever the book is ready if there are less in the book than you originally counted there may be a problem.

2. While observing the players warm up ask one of the good players if they always run with 10 or whatever the number is. Good opportunity to get one on your side.

3. Before signing the book, allow each coach one last look-see to verify their starting 5 & eligibles are correct. That way if you ever have to take care of business, they know that you afforded them every opportunity to make it right.

Guess whos checking the book tomorrow nite!!

Great tips. I will certainly use them the next time I'm the R.

Too bad, I'm not the R for tomorrow ;)

In my games everybody is assigned a duty, now you get 2 :D

Furthermore ...
 

Many administrative infractions can involve the scorebook and rosters. If a team adds a name to the team roster after the ten minute time limit, then a team technical foul is charged. When such a player legally enters the court, the player’s name and uniform number must be entered into the official scorebook. In order to penalize this infraction, the offending team member must be one of the five players currently in the game. In addition, if a team requires the official scorer to change a team member or player’s uniform number in the official scorebook (with exception), after the ten minute time limit, then a team technical foul is charged. If there is no request for change, or if a team member does not become a player, thus avoiding the change, there is no penalty.

Three scorebook situations: adding a name to the team roster, changing a name or a number in the official scorebook, and/or having a player change a uniform number, are penalized with a team technical foul when they occur, after the ten minute time limit. These infractions occur when the scorer is advised to add to or change the official scorebook. The foul must be charged when it occurs and enforced when the ball next becomes live. Once the ball becomes live, after such changes have been made to the scorebook, it is too late to penalize. Remember, the ball becomes live when: on a jump ball, the tossed ball leaves the referee’s hand; on a throw-in, it is at the disposal of the thrower; and on a free throw, it is at the disposal of the free thrower.

After the ten minute time limit a team is charged with a maximum of one technical foul regardless of how many infractions of the following are committed: changing a designated starter, adding a name to the team member list, requiring the scorer to change a team member’s or player’s number in the scorebook, requiring a player to change to the number in the scorebook, and/or having identical numbers on team members and/or players. Each player must wear the number indicated in the scorebook, or change the official scorebook number to that the player is wearing. Any additional substitutes who become players and require the changing of the number indicated for them in the official scorebook will not result in a penalty, as the one maximum technical has already been charged to the team for that team’s administrative infraction

Case Play ...
 

3.2.2 SITUATION C: Team A substitute No. 25 reports to the table for the first
time with approximately one minute remaining in the second quarter and is beckoned
onto the court. In (a), the ball is put in play by a throw-in from A1 to A2.
The horn sounds and the scorer informs the officials that No. 25 is not listed in
the scorebook. In (b), No. 25 plays the remainder of the second quarter. During
halftime intermission, the official scorer realizes No. 25 is not listed in the scorebook
and informs the officials when they return to the court before the start of
the third quarter. RULING: In (a), No. 25 is currently in the game and became a
player when he/she legally entered the court. Since his or her name and number
must now be entered into the scorebook, a technical foul is charged to Team A.
In (b), no penalty is assessed since No. 25 is not currently in the game. If No. 25
attempts to enter the game in the second half, his or her name and number will
be added to the scorebook and a technical foul charged to Team A. (3-2-2b; 10-
1-2b)

Timeout Versus Intermission ???
 

She's still a player during the timeout.

Now if this happened during an intermission, she would then be considered bench personnel. Would that make a difference, especially if she were substituted for during the timeout?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Because of the foul, no.

Let's not overlook the real problem
 

Isn't the real problem the fact that there is only 10 minutes between the end of the JV game and the start of the Varsity game?

Where is game management in all this? Only allowing 10 minutes to get ready for a HS Varsity contest? If I was one of the two officials involved I would have talked to someone about this, be it local game management before the start or the state association after the contest. This is unfair to the players and everyone else involved.

what could the crew do in this case to try and change the timing of the pre-game warmup?

10 minutes is plenty of time, in my opinion. But if there are only 10 minutes, it makes the rules regarding the book inapplicable.

This case play is fairly recent and dead wrong in my opinion. Per rule 2-11 the scorer is required to keep a record of all players and substitutes who enter the game. Guess where that record is kept? Yep, the scorebook, so that team member must be entered into the scorebook and a T assessed. The person who authored the ruling to part (b) of the above play ruling for the NFHS doesn't know the darn rules. :(

Many schools have an auxillary gym where the varsity teams can warm up during the JV game. If that is the case, then 10 minutes on the game court prior to starting play is plenty of time and presents no risk of injury to the student-athletes.
If the teams are starting out cold without the benefit of some place to warm-up and you feel that 10 minutes is not enough time, simply consult both coaches on how much time each team needs and give them that. Don't risk an injury to a kid because someone is in a hurry.

Good one, but you forgot the sarcasm tags.

Really. I would be thrilled beyond belief if we only had 10 minutes. In Wisconsin, it's 20 l-o-n-g minutes and we have to stand out there for all of it.

Inquiring Minds Still Want To Know ...
 

Why does the foul, or lack of, have anything to do with it? In order to penalize this infraction, the offending team member must be one of the five players currently in the game. It's an intermisson, not a timeout. She's bench personnel. Nobody is one of the five players currently in the game. I'm not sure that I disagree with you, it's just that I think that this needs further discussion.

Great case play for group discussion. I agree that a "T" must be assessed as he is a player during the TO.

In our area, if it is a JV and Varsity game, Varsity game is always 20 minutes after the completion of JV game.

This problem about not having enough time to enter the roster after the JV is so easily solved...........

Tell the school to buy a second scorebook! Scorebooks are cheap and they'll use them anyways. They can buy 1 every year, or 2 every two years.

Most teams are present well before 10 minutes before their tip-off time. They can likely fill out the scoresheet 30 minutes before tip-off!

Problem solved.

It can alsow be solved by having officials read the rules -- the book is not required to be completed 10-minutes before tip-off.

If the foul is to be recorded, there will be a change needed to be made in the book unless the scorer is that far gone or duplicitous. So if scorers add the name after the player is now BP, but dont assess the T...do we now have a delayed T for if the player comes back in the game?

Too Late To Penalize ...
 

No technical foul charged. It's too late. The foul must be charged when it occurs and enforced when the ball next becomes live. Once the ball becomes live, after such changes have been made to the scorebook, it is too late to penalize.

And by "it", the NFHS means that the name being written into the scorebook.

If the name had never been added to the scorebook, then there would be a technical foul charged only if, and when, the player re-entered the game. If the player never re-entered the game, there would be no technical foul charged.

Remember, the technical foul is not for the unlisted player playing, it's for the unlisted player's name being added to the scorebook.

I was wondering when someone would point this out. :)

The other thing to do in this type of situation is to notice if there is a game program with the roster printed in it.

Not Relevant ...
 

The fact that the player committed a foul is not relevant, other than it probably called attention to the fact that she wasn't listed in the scorebook.

But, NFHS Rules, If It's Not Illegal, Then It's Legal ???
 

Especially since it's a girls game.

The officials have knowledge that a foul was committed by #15 and #15 is not in the book then #15 will entered in the book and a 'T' will be assessed.

This is one of my pet peeves when dealing with other officials. Guys get so hung up on this stuff about "The book isn't ready yet". Around here, the vast majority of visiting teams just supply their scorebook to the scorer (Who has the home book at the table), and the scorer copies the visitor's roster from their scorebook into the main book. If the scorer hasn't done that yet, I just make sure the number of visiting players match up with how many players they have listed in their book, and sign both books and get it over with. I'm not going to stand there and watch the scorer copy 14 players into the home book.

That reminds me that I had a "veteran" partner last year who gave a T to a team in a tournament who had supplied their roster to the scorer before the game. The scorer had left one player off (Not sure which one of us missed this while signing the book). When the player entered the game, the team in question showed us that the player was on the roster they supplied, and the scorer agreed that he/she had messed up, but my partner was adamant that the T should be given. I tried to tell him that it is a scorer's error, but he was having none of it. The better part was that when the other team's coach started to have one of his bench players shoot the technical foul shots, my partner told him that only the five players on the court can shoot free throws for a technical. I tried to reason with him on both things, but he wouldn't even huddle with me to discuss it. He told me afterwards that he didn't want to get together because us talking makes it look like we don't know what we're doing. :rolleyes:

I probably would have retorted that jacking up the rules like that is even worse.

Just My Opinion ...
 

Only, if, and when, #15 is, or becomes, one of the five players participating in the game. If #15 is on the bench at the time of discovery, no name will be added to the book. In order to penalize this infraction, the offending team member must be one of the five players currently in the game.

And you said, "What's this 'we' stuff?"

I never said it had to be. ;)

All I mentioned was "a problem".


Everything else about basketball is prepared ahead of time. Why not the scorebook as well?

During the warm-ups, instead of writing players' names, the coaches could be actually be... coaching!

Nope. #15 committed a foul. My crew and I have definite knowledge that #15 committed a foul and we want that foul properly recorded in the book. Would do the same if #15 scored and the crew and/or scorer had definite knowledge that #15 scored a point, then #15 is going in the book and a T is being administered.

The T is for adding a name to or changing a number in the book. If #15 did something that needs to be recorded in the book then there is going to be a T administered.

Reference, please.

FWIW, I agree with this.

Just curious (and perhaps stirring the pot a bit) about something.
I agree with scrapper and BNR, but in those states where participation is counted towards a season maximum, doesn't a player need to be added to the book regardless of whether they commit a foul or score a point?

IMO, only if the state has specifically said so (and, thus, said to ignore the case involved).

They would but it takes definite knowledge of them being in the game to cause them to be added. This knowledge comes from them currently being one of the five players or having a foul assessed to them. (I personally don't think scoring is sufficient as the scoring player is formally reported to the table.)

Where does this assessment of things come from? In other situations, definite knowledge is just that. I saw it. I know it happened. The clock stopped late, etc. Number 15 was in the game. I saw him. I see sweat on him now. That is definite knowledge.

I wanted to. I got the rule book out after the game and tried showing him, but he made some excuse about "We just interpret it differently" or "You're reading too much into the rule"...just brushing it off so he wouldn't have to admit he was wrong. I just decided to leave well enough alone after that. He has been around for a long time and isn't going to change, especially when some guy in his 20s tells him he's wrong. What I wanted to do was email the assigner and ask him not to give me any more games with a guy who doesn't know the rules....I know better though. It was embarrassing when the coach whose team was shooting the technical FTs knew the rule about all eligible players on the roster being able to shoot. I didn't want to throw my partner under the bus, but I had to acknowledge that the coach was right. I think he knew that it wasn't my fault, so he didn't get upset about it.

On a side note, I have a real problem with officials who don't bother to study and know the rules of the sport they're officiating. After all, it is what you get paid to do. I admit that I don't know everything rule-wise, but I at least make an effort. Some guys try to act like it isn't "cool" to study rules and poke fun at guys like me who can answer most rules questions without the book. What's worse is when officials know rules but ignore them, like stories I have heard locally when officials have a blarge and ignore the rules and go with one call over the other instead of a double foul. Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now.

This is a situation where I would tell my partner that I don't agree and he needs to explain his ruling to the coach and I would then take the ball over to administer the free throws.

Any further questions from the coach to me on the subject would be answered with an "I hear you coach".

I would not throw my partner under the bus but I would not allow myself to be used as a buffer either.

Which case?

Maybe it was an interp. NEvada has cited it in one of the recent threads on this issue.

Found it.

Thanks, I'm not questioning the validity, but I would wonder how scoring is different than participating. Both are tracked by the statisticians, and the participation is arguably more important than the scoring.

We're also assuming the officials have definite knowledge that #15 participated.

How About This Citation ???
 

*3.2.2 SITUATION C: Team A substitute No. 25 reports to the table for the first time with approximately one minute remaining in the second quarter and is beckoned onto the court. In (a), the ball is put in play by a throw-in from A1 to A2. The horn sounds and the scorer informs the officials that No. 25 is not listed in the scorebook. In (b), No. 25 plays the remainder of the second quarter. During halftime intermission, the official scorer realizes No. 25 is not listed in the scorebook and informs the officials when they return to the court before the start of the third quarter. RULING: In (a), No. 25 is currently in the game and became a player when he/she legally entered the court. Since his or her name and number must now be entered into the scorebook, a technical foul is charged to Team A. In (b), no penalty is assessed since No. 25 is not currently in the game. (If No. 25 attempts to enter the game in the second half, his or her name and number will be added to the scorebook and a technical foul charged to Team A. 3-2-2b; 10- 1-2b)

I really do not believe that this case plays applies here. The T is for when the name is added to the book.

With the foul 15 has to be added to the
book. In the case play the name does not have to be added.

Good Question ???
 

Same question.

Agreed. The case play is assuming that A25 didn't foul (and, probably, didn't score, but I'll admit there's more gray area here). Those who are high-lighting the "no penalty is assessed since No. 25 is not currently in the game" are over-applying it.

In the OP, A15 (I think) fouled, so must be added to the book, so there will be a T when that happens.

Your citation doesn't address a player who has scored or committed a foul.

# of quarters played
 

The NFHS in this caseplay also does not consider that many states have restrictions on # of quarters played/day. Our state director of officiating told me in this situation to go ahead and put the player in the book to document the quarter played and then assess the technical. Other states may differ so officials may want to check how their state wants it handled.

I'll Call You ...
 

Absolutely positively true. You got me. Red handed.

Please show me a citation in which said player scores, or commits a foul, while participating, before being substituted for, and the "error" in the scorebook is discovered while said player is not a "player" but is bench personnel.

I'm waiting. The clock is ticking (imagine the Jeopardy song here).

After the 10-minute time limit specified in Article 1:

a. Change a designated starter unless necessitated as in 3-2-2a.

b. Add a name to the team member list.

c. Require the scorer to change a team member's or player's number in the scorebook.

d. Require a player to change to the number in the scorebook.

e. Have identical numbers on team members and/or players.

PENALTY: (Art. 2) One foul only per team regardless of the number of infractions. (Art. 2a) Penalized if discovered before ball becomes live to start game. (Arts. 2b, c, d) Penalized when they occur. (Art. 2e) Penalized when discovered.

Context ???
 

Don't forget the casebook citation: No penalty is assessed since No. 25 is not currently in the game.

I'm still waiting to see a citation that differentiates between a player, not in the scorebook, who scores, or commits a foul, and a player who, while not in the book, doesn't score, or doesn't foul. In both cases the need to add the name to the scorebook is discovered after the player has been replaced by a substitute and is now bench personnel.

Cue the Jeopardy song. Where are Ken Jennings, and Mary Struckoff, when you need them?

By the way, I don't have the answer to this situation, I'm just trying to get a better handle on it.

Yet, that citation doesn't involve the recording of an infraction that is required to be recorded in the scorebook.

What I want to know is why the scorekeeper didn't speak up at the moment the foul was reported. Where did they record the foul?

You have to understand why there is no penalty in the caseplay. There is no penalty in the case play because in this situation we ARE NOT FORCED to add the name to the book thus there is no change in the book to be made until the player comes into the game.

That is not the case with the foul. Now if the ball becomes live again after this happens, its not too late to penalize.

Pretend I'm From Missouri ...
 

Agree 100%. I get it. That citation works for that specific situation. Now please show me a citation where a player, not in the scorebook, scores, or commits a foul, and then there is a need to add the name to the scorebook, and this need is discovered after the player has been replaced by a substitute, meaning said player is now bench personnel.

There is none, the rules that have been posted are clear.

Heck the coach could ask halfway through the game that a name be added to the list and that player wont step on the court for a second on the court or even be out of the country, still a T.(10.1.2)

The status of the player, either as bench personnel or as a player, has no bearing when the name is added to the book. Its just that the name is added to the book and is caught before a live ball.

To answer your question, I don't think my partner gave her time, he reported the foul and then immediately signaled the timeout. The players started going to their benches and then the scorekeeper called him over. By the time he made it to the score table all the players were on their benches.

Incidentally, when my partner came to me to tell me we had a Technical, I asked him did the score table tell him before or after the timeout and he said before the timeout. But that wasn't true, otherwise the string of events would have been different.

As a crew we screwed it up. But ultimately, I think we got the correct ruling.

The New Gray ...
 

Clear? A few Forum members have indicated that the rule does seem to present a "gray" area. I am not adamant that I am correct. I also think that the rule is slightly ambiguous.

I would love to see a "clear" rule, or casebook play, where the term "forced" is used to describe the writing of a name in the scorebook.

Please Charge My Team With A Technical Foul ...
 

Point? Never in dispute. A smart coach would take the "T" when the other team has the ball.

Player Or Bench Personnel ???
 

It doesn't? RULING: In (a), No. 25 is currently in the game and became a player when he/she legally entered the court. Since his or her name and number must now be entered into the scorebook, a technical foul is charged to Team A. In (b), no penalty is assessed since No. 25 is not currently in the game. (If No. 25 attempts to enter the game in the second half, his or her name and number will be added to the scorebook and a technical foul charged to Team A.

I wish the rules stated that if the officials, maybe even the table "officials", have definite knowledge" that No. 25 participated as a player in the game, that the name must then be written in the scorebook upon discovery, and that a team technical foul will be charged. But the rules just don't say that. They don't. I wish that they did, but they don't.

I think I will send you and tref Hooked on Phonix .

If the book had every effin situation in it needed to be clear to you (and some others) it would be 1000 pages long. Your continuous need to ask over and over and over again isn't magically going to get you the answer you want.

The T is for adding a name or changing a number. The fact that I know I called a PC foul on #15 at the 7:00 mark is all I need to direct the scorer to add #15 to the book some point later in the game. At that point it becomes a T.

Are you going to ignore that fact that you called a foul on #15? So, if you call a foul on #20 and the scorer records it as #30 are you saying you are not at some point later in the game going to have the scorer correct that mistake?

A Missed Free Throw ???
 

Great question. No, I don't think that the foul should be ignored. I would just like to see some changes in the way this rule is worded.

If #15 played, without fouling, and I know 100% for sure that she played, can I tell the scorekeeper to add her name to the book and charge a team technical foul?

What if #15 played, but didn't score any points, or commit any fouls, but missed the front end of a one and one? Can I tell the scorekeeper to add her name to the book and charge a team technical foul?

The Answer ??? Something Is Poorly Worded ...
 

Oh, I already got the answer that I want. A long time ago. The rule is poorly worded. Maybe the rule, by itself, is worded correctly, it's just that the casebook play needs some tinkering.

Because I Said So, Now Go To Bed, No Supper For You ...
 

Above quote transferred over from the Player Control Foul thread.

Wouldn't it be nice if the rule regarding a player's name being added to the book was logical?

Well, as long as your bringing trouble from the other thread... let me bring over the CE thread. (I'm interloping from the other board, but if I understand the two rules correctly this scenario creates a problem that should probably be addressed by clarifying the rule.)

B has 5 fouls when B1 fouls A1 who is not in the book. A1 is erroneously awarded one and one. He makes both and team B gets the ball. Team B inbounds and calls timeout. A6 reports to replace A1 who takes a seat on the bench. During the timeout it comes to the officials knowledge that A1 was not entitled to free throws in a) before it comes to their knowledge that A1 needs to be added to the book or in b) after it comes to their knowledge that A1 needs to be added to the book. Rulings?

Can of Yuck
 

When does A6 enter the game? It looks like we a have a timeout before the substitution.

Situation A) I believe we're still in the CE timelimit, so we cancel out the inappropriate free throws. Then we penalize Team A for adding a player ito the book.

Ouch.

Situation B) We give a technical to Team A. Now if your question is referring to the free throws for the technical being taken first, then that would put us beyond the CE timelimit, so we would keep the free throws.

I think that's what you are asking, but I had to take liberties with the interpretation.

Well, Here's Another Fine Mess That You've Gotten Me Into ...
 

Since A1's free throws were erroneously taken, then there is no need to write anything in the book (points, fouls, missed free throws), so if A1 is now bench personnel, does his name have to be added to the book?

Usually scorekeepers keep track of free throw attempts...

Not Usually, By Rule, They Must ...
 

But these were erased.

Erased from where? If the free throws were in the book, A1 was already in the book.

Man, This Is Crazy, Isn't It ???
 

And if the scorekeeper added the name to the book after the first free throw, and didn't inform the official about the addition, then it's to late to penalize when the ball becomes live while at the disposal of the free thrower for shot number two. The foul must be charged when it occurs and enforced when the ball next becomes live. Once the ball becomes live, after such changes have been made to the scorebook, it is too late to penalize.

Huh? A scorekeeping mistake can be corrected at anytime.

If the scorer takes it upon himself to add a name and does not inform the officials, there is nothing the officials can do about it.

Twists And Turns ...
 

A1 erroneously makes two free throws. A few minutes later they are erased. Is this a score keeping mistake, or a correctable error?

How does A1 erroneously make 2 free throws? Did he attempt to slam the shots off the backboard and they still went in?

Correctable error: A1 shoots free throws he is not entitled to.

Scorekeeping error: A1 is recorded as making 2 free throws but the shots were actually taken by A2.

"BillyMac with a reach.":D

BillyMac may have made this clear below, but the point of the example is that A6 enters the game before any of the fun starts. Hence, the case play applies unless you need to add A1 for some other reason. But A1 didn't score if the free throws don't count.

When You're Good, You're Good ...
 

And how many times have we, and by we, I'm referring to grizzled veterans, seen players trying to miss the free throw, giving their team a chance to get a rebound, and the ball goes in?

If #15 fouls, #15 is NOT on the bench.

If #15 fouls, then #15 is in the game and is a player.

"Blue, 15, push, 2 shots."
"#15 isn't in the book."
"Technical foul."

Let The Games Begin ...
 

When the table does it's job, and tells us about the "problem" right away, it makes the rule very easy to administer. It's when we are not informed in a timely manner. That's when the fun begins.

What scorer is not going to tell you #15 is not in the book when you stand there and report it?

In all the times I've had this happen, the scorer has never told me after the player was substituted for.

I guess I've never had any fun.

Common sense rules the day, again.

Careful, the day ain't over.

Where's chseagle When You Need Him ???
 

The scorer in Toren's original post in this thread:

4th quarter girls varsity game last night. Player #15 commits a foul that my partner has a whistle on. He goes and reports the foul and then the coach asks for a timeout. My partner grants the full timeout. All players go to their respective benches. The score table calls my partner over and informs him that player #15 is not in the book.

That's when all the fun began.

At the very least, you'll get told when #15 commits a foul or scores a point; at which point I'm having them add him to the book and calling the T.

If the R lines through the empty spaces in the book, they won't be able to add anything without your knowledge. Players are not, as far as I know, bench personnel during a timeout.

If it happens and the player is in and out before you're told about the issue, and the scorer does not add them to the book, I'm not going to worry about it. Easy call, no T unless they come in again.

I just don't understand why this is generating so much distress.

The only time it's really a problem is if the scorer adds the name and doesn't tell you. Has anyone actually had that happen more than once in a career?

All Are Bench Personnel During Intermissions ...
 

Correct. The five players before the time out, sans substitutions, are still the five players during the timeout. They are bench personnel during intermissions, and, of course, when they are not one of the five players participating in the game.

The original post in this thread complicated matters by having a substitution made before the discovery of the need for an added name in the scorebook. That's when the fun began.

Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy ...
 

When the scorekeeper does his job, this is a pretty straightforward technical foul.

The only technical foul that I ever had to charge for this infraction, in a high school varsity game, happened in such a simple manner. We've got A12 on the free throw line for two shots. He makes the first shot. Scorekeeper sounds the horn, and calls me over to the table. "A12 is not in the book. Got the name, but the number is wrong". I asked to see the list that the home scorekeeper used to copy the names, and numbers, into the scorebook. A12's correct uniform number was not on the submitted list. We add A12's correct number into the scorebook. We clear the lane and allow A12 his second free throw. We go down to the other end and allow Team B to shoot two free throws for the technical foul, and we give Team B the ball at the division line, opposite the table, for a throwin.

How? It's simple, if you have to add the name, do it and call the T.

When do you have to add it? When the player is still playing, when the player scored, or when the player committed a foul.

If you don't, then just smile and move on.

As A Barrel Of Monkeys ...
 

I was of that opinion earlier in the thread, and I had a citation to prove it (No penalty is assessed since No. 25 is not currently in the game), but a few esteemed members have me questioning how to handle this correctly.

That's why this thread is so much fun.

Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy, Again ...
 

Still easy to handle. These infractions occur when the scorer is advised to add to or change the official scorebook. The foul must be charged when it occurs and enforced when the ball next becomes live. Once the ball becomes live, after such changes have been made to the scorebook, it is too late to penalize.

Free Throw Attempts ???
 

How about a missed free throw? Scorekeepers are required to list those.

How I wish that the rule, and penalty, would read that way. How I wish that the casebook never included the statement: No penalty is assessed since No. 25 is not currently in the game.

Still having fun?

Nope, you're overcomplicating a simple issue. If the case play involved a player who had fouled or scored, I'd say ignore it then, too. But it doesn't, so I don't think it applies to a situation where a player scores or fouls. If they're required to note missed free throws (I just don't know), then that's good enough, too.

Based On Common Sense ???
 

I would love to see a citation for, "When the player scored, or when the player committed a foul", but I'm probably not going to get it, nor will I disagree with those who believe that this is the correct interpretation. I will continue to question it, to get additional citations, or an interpretation from the NFHS, or from an esteemed interpreter, IAABO (for me), or otherwise, but I'm not going to disagree. This is a case where the citation is common sense, but it would be nice to get something in writing.

Fun With A Casebook ...
 

Agree.

The caseplay doesn't say that the player in question fouled or scored, but it doesn't say that the player in question didn't either. It just doesn't give us enough information. It gives us no information in regard to what A25 does, or doesn't do, during his time as a player. That's why this is so much fun. Still having fun?

3.2.2 SITUATION C: Team A substitute No. 25 reports to the table for the first
time with approximately one minute remaining in the second quarter and is beckoned
onto the court. In (a), the ball is put in play by a throw-in from A1 to A2.
The horn sounds and the scorer informs the officials that No. 25 is not listed in
the scorebook. In (b), No. 25 plays the remainder of the second quarter. During
halftime intermission, the official scorer realizes No. 25 is not listed in the scorebook
and informs the officials when they return to the court before the start of
the third quarter. RULING: In (a), No. 25 is currently in the game and became a
player when he/she legally entered the court. Since his or her name and number
must now be entered into the scorebook, a technical foul is charged to Team A.
In (b), no penalty is assessed since No. 25 is not currently in the game. If No. 25
attempts to enter the game in the second half, his or her name and number will
be added to the scorebook and a technical foul charged to Team A. (3-2-2b; 10-
1-2b)

You Guys Have Almost Got Me Convinced ...
 

These (in blue) sound like opinions. Opinions that I value, not only from Snaqwells, but from several other esteemed Forum members. These opinions have me questioning my original interpretation of this situation, but I would love to be further convinced.