Arrogance.(long.Sorry;;)

[Bart Tyson]

Lets seeeee, parents, fans, wantobe coaches, lets face they don't have a clue so, they get personal to make them feel better about themselves. I don't think you need to change anything. Good luck.

[Ref in PA]

This is AAU ball, for crying out loud. I have watched it, but not reffed it. It is not the same, in my opinion, as regular HS ball. It seems to me that almost all players and most coaches have an attitude problem. I have read your discussions on reffing AAU ball before on this board. So, what is my point? Prepare yourself mentally before the game. It is my observation that the refs (and coaches) are disrespected more by the players and fans at these games than during the regular season. Knowing ahead of time what may happen will help prepare your mindset on how you will ACT (not react) in the heat of the moment. I think that will help the overall perception of you, the ref.

[DrakeM]

Thanks for all your responses. Good points all and I will take many of them and see if they work.
A couple of points.
FIrst my comment to the assigner.
My main point was, I don't need to take the abuse from parents,Coaches etc., for the $15 bucks a game we're getting paid. It was also not as confrontational a statement as it sounds when taken by itself. He was not offended and understood.

Second, my College and High school season went very well.
NO conflicts with Coaches, players etc. So I know who "butters my bread"

Third, as RefinPA states, "this is AAU ball"
So I know that the "source" of complaints has to be considered. But I read a statement one time that stuck with me. "If you're going to believe everything good people say about you, then you also have to believe the bad things they say."
Just wanting to make sure that the "bad things" I hear, don't over power the "good things".

Drake

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by DrakeM
Thanks for all your responses. Good points all and I will take many of them and see if they work.
A couple of points.
FIrst my comment to the assigner.
My main point was, I don't need to take the abuse from parents,Coaches etc., for the $15 bucks a game we're getting paid. It was also not as confrontational a statement as it sounds when taken by itself. He was not offended and understood.

Second, my College and High school season went very well.
NO conflicts with Coaches, players etc. So I know who "butters my bread"

Third, as RefinPA states, "this is AAU ball"
So I know that the "source" of complaints has to be considered. But I read a statement one time that stuck with me. "If you're going to believe everything good people say about you, then you also have to believe the bad things they say."
Just wanting to make sure that the "bad things" I hear, don't over power the "good things".

Drake

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Ref in PA
This is AAU ball, for crying out loud. I have watched it, but not reffed it. It is not the same, in my opinion, as regular HS ball. It seems to me that almost all players and most coaches have an attitude problem. I have read your discussions on reffing AAU ball before on this board. So, what is my point? Prepare yourself mentally before the game. It is my observation that the refs (and coaches) are disrespected more by the players and fans at these games than during the regular season. Knowing ahead of time what may happen will help prepare your mindset on how you will ACT (not react) in the heat of the moment. I think that will help the overall perception of you, the ref.

I have made this point over and over again that AAU is different. But the one thing about AAU is, you might be watched by someone that is very influencial in officiating, watching you officiate for the first time. So even if it is AAU or any league outside of the normal league, you still should maintain some kind of professionalism, despite the people you are dealing with. I will admit that I do act a little different when officiating an AAU Tournament or League of some kind. I tend to be more vocal and teach the game more to kids and coaches if need be. Not because I want someone to win over someone else, but usually if they learn the game at that time of the year, it helps us all during the regular season. And you also do not have a locker-room to run to at half time and between games in most cases. So you tend to be around to be asked questions. But I still think it is important to adhere to as much professionalism, despite the behavior of everyone else.

Peace

[bdiddy32]

Just so that you know Drake, as your partner for that game, I saw you trying to keep the kid in the game and you didn't come off as arrogant to me.
BTW I did tell the asignor that you gave the kid every chance to chill out before you tossed him.

[zebraman]

The AAU games I work are generally "more relaxed" than actual school games. Maybe the fact that you expect the same "professionalism" from players and coaches in the AAU games comes off as "arrogant." In an AAU game, if both coaches wanted to play 4-on-4, I'd probably allow it. That's just me.... if I had a partner who wanted to enforce the 5-on-4 thing, I'd go along with that too. Sounds like it might just be a difference in how strict people think the rules ought to be enforced in off-season AAU.

Or maybe you have some mannerisms that some people see as confidence and others see as arrogance.

Either way, if you aren't getting those comments in school ball, you have to decide if AAU is important enough for you to care.

Z

[Hawks Coach]

Just make sure you undrestand the difference between shootout tournaments (4 games in 2 days for the sake of playing high-level ball) and the national qualifying tournaments. If it is a national qualifier, we are talking about a serious competition with a lot on the line (especially in my region where we routinely have a couple of teams ranked top-ten in the country in an age group).

I am sure that most making these comments understand this, but all should be aware. National qualifying is what many players work for all year (for several years) to achieve, and the qualifying events are some of the biggest games of their year. If they are HS, it gets them to tournaments with tons of college recruiters, which is important for their future.

[JRutledge]

I have personally officiated a regional qualifier or national qualifier (whatever they actually called it), where the winner of the tournament moves on and everyone else stays home. These games were never just "laid back" at any time. These were just as intense if not sometimes more intense than many HS games I had done. And we were never allowed to just allow things like 5 on 4 just for the hell of it. We had to adhere to the rules, because if we did not the assignors or tournament directors would not allow us to officiate these games at all (not that this is a bad thing ). And I have done local tournaments where AAU teams from all over the country come in to play for prizes and money. Lebron James broke his wrist at an AAU Tournament that I have done in past years, last year. These AAU teams take hundred of dollars to run and enter tournaments. They are not just going to go along with stuff that is not apart of the rules if they know it should not be allowed (and I am talking about their knowledge of course). But that is the way it is here. Just like any discussion, it could be different in other areas of the country.

Peace

[zebraman]

To Hawks Coach and J. Rutledge

I agree that some AAU tourneys are intense. Since the "super" told the refs to continue 5 on 4, I assumed that that wasn't the case in this sitch.

Z

[Hawks Coach]

I agree that Drake's sitch would not have happened the same way at a national qualifier. However, I have seen and dealt with refs that treat all AAU as equal and do not recognize the significance of the qualifier.

I would also say that I have always appreciated getting a polished and professional ref at every contest, and so do my players. Even if it doesn't count, we still want a good game. Good refs can do a lot to ensure we have a good game. If we can dribble, cut, pass, catch, shoot, rebound and defend well, that helps too

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I have personally officiated a regional qualifier or national qualifier (whatever they actually called it), where the winner of the tournament moves on and everyone else stays home. These games were never just "laid back" at any time. These were just as intense if not sometimes more intense than many HS games I had done. And we were never allowed to just allow things like 5 on 4 just for the hell of it. We had to adhere to the rules, because if we did not the assignors or tournament directors would not allow us to officiate these games at all (not that this is a bad thing ). And I have done local tournaments where AAU teams from all over the country come in to play for prizes and money. Lebron James broke his wrist at an AAU Tournament that I have done in past years, last year. These AAU teams take hundred of dollars to run and enter tournaments. They are not just going to go along with stuff that is not apart of the rules if they know it should not be allowed (and I am talking about their knowledge of course). But that is the way it is here. Just like any discussion, it could be different in other areas of the country.

Peace

Yeah, I've done my share of these intense off-season games too. But what happened to the JRutledge who refused to work AAU & other out of season games?

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Yeah, I've done my share of these intense off-season games too. But what happened to the JRutledge who refused to work AAU & other out of season games?

You need to go back an read my posts, instead of trying to tell me what I said or what I am thinking. Considering that I seem to actually know what I said, I think those comments were only about AAU. It is just a guess, but it was only AAU. I have not done any AAU games in over a year. I have done High School Leagues, which have much more credibility and tend to be more fun considering you are seeing teams that you will actually officiate during the "regular season." And if I attend an actual Licensed IHSA Camp, it is going to be with High School teams, not AAU teams. But then again, you think I said presence was more important than rules knowledge (something I never said).

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by JRutledge

You need to go back an read my posts, instead of trying to tell me what I said or what I am thinking. Considering that I seem to actually know what I said, I think those comments were only about AAU. It is just a guess, but it was only AAU. I have not done any AAU games in over a year. I have done High School Leagues, which have much more credibility and tend to be more fun considering you are seeing teams that you will actually officiate during the "regular season." And if I attend an actual Licensed IHSA Camp, it is going to be with High School teams, not AAU teams. But then again, you think I said presence was more important than rules knowledge (something I never said).

Peace

http://www.gmcgriff.com/refonline/ww...ges/46635.html

http://www.gmcgriff.com/refonline/ww...ges/46660.html

[JRutledge]

Post 1:

"Here is the inherent problem with AAU to begin with. You are asking officials (in shape and not) to do several games in a row with 2 officials total."

Interesting, not a single word about myself.


"I am in great shape, but by the 3rd and 4th games, I get tired if I did the games straight myself. So officials that have been around the block, pass on these games."

Only comment about myself was how tired I get and the type of shape I am in.

"And the folks that cannot buy a quality game during the "real season" are the main people left doing AAU or any summer time leagues. Just the way it is."

I do not see any words that specifically deal with my personal situation. Maybe you do, but you are good at reading into stuff.

Post 2

But understand Yaw, that your situation seems to be the exception. AAU games are done during the off-season and officiated by officials that are coming up or not regular officials.

Speaking specifically of one person's situation.


So a JV/Freshman official during the "regular season" are doing varsity and college level game during the spring or summer. That is just the nature of the beast.

Again this comment has nothing to do with me either.


Not everyone is doing AAU tournaments or HS Summer Leagues around the country. Just a fact.

This is true. Not everyone that I know is doing any basketball at this time. Not if you are a multiple sport official espcicially. Especially right now, this is Baseball, Softball, Soccer, Track and Boy's Volleyball season for many Basketball officials. They already have committments in most cases. Kind of hard to schedule basketball game on a Saturday, when you have a double header and you do not know when it is going to end.

And for multiple sport officials like myself, I am doing baseball games on a daily basis, I do not have time to officiate a basketball game except for Sunday. I would like a day off.

This is true during the spring. It is baseball season right now for many right now. In my area there are AAU shootouts and tournaments going on right now, but many kids are playing other sports and are in school. Ya know that school thing just seems to get in the way. But when the summer starts, when HS have the gyms are open and other facilities availible to host a HS Summer League, maybe I will be there to officiate those. But then again, you probably think in early May the school year is out. I mean it was like 61 degrees most of the day yesterday during my High School doubleheader. That might constitute summer in some folks eyes. Feels like spring to me.

I thought you were going to find a post with some comments I made last year sometime about AAU. Because I did say I was not doing anymore AAU. I have not done an AAU game in over a year. And do not see myself doing any more when all the camps and leagues I currently do are HS teams. But then again, we all digress.