more from the dark side

[rsl]

Just back from coaching my 11 year-olds rec game. This coaching thing gives great insight into reffing- I just hope I make it back from the dark side!

First quarter I'm down by four, and from my perspective (remember I am on the dark side) the other team is too long in the key, and they are getting paint points out of it. So, I ask the refs to watch three seconds. Ref tells me they are teaching in the first quarter and they will tighten up if the boys don't respond. I reply that they are getting points in the mean time, and I would prefer they enforce the rule. This resulted in three straight 3-second calls on my guys. I complain and get my first ever warning from a ref. So, I shut up for the rest of the game.

But, all the yelling about three seconds has its effect. The other team stops camping, and by the end of the second I am up by ten.

Is this the way it is supposed to work? Coaches push referees to the limits to influence the game in their favor, and as long as they don't cross the magic T line, it is part of the game?

The refs were decent overall. There was one inadvertent call where the ref called a technical for six players on the floor and then counted and there were only five. It happened with a shot in the air (not the best time to make this call, IMHO) and they counted the shot on the inadvertent whistle. I need to look this up and see if this is correct.

After the game, I asked what association they were from and they gave me a blank stare like "What's an association?" I thanked them and moved on, but I think our county rec has come up with their own test, and these guys are not actually NFHS certified.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by rsl

Is this the way it is supposed to work? Coaches push referees to the limits to influence the game in their favor, and as long as they don't cross the magic T line, it is part of the game?

The refs were decent overall. There was one inadvertent call where the ref called a technical for six players on the floor and then counted and there were only five. It happened with a shot in the air (not the best time to make this call, IMHO) and they counted the shot on the inadvertent whistle. I need to look this up and see if this is correct.

Yes, and they were correct.

[rsl]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes, ...

That is unfortunate. I am not really comfortable pushing the referees that hard, and in an 11 year-old game I probably won't do it again. But does explain why high school coaches (whose paycheck depends on winning) push us so hard when we are carrying whistles. Good learning experience for me.

[APG]

Yes they were correct in counting the basket. The ball doesn't become dead when a try is in flight. Resume play at the POI after the inadvertent whistle.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by rsl

Is this the way it is supposed to work? Coaches push referees to the limits to influence the game in their favor, and as long as they don't cross the magic T line, it is part of the game?

Most coaches think so.

After the game, I asked what association they were from and they gave me a blank stare like "What's an association?" I thanked them and moved on, but I think our county rec has come up with their own test, and these guys are not actually NFHS certified.

What is NFHS certified?

[rsl]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

What is NFHS certified?

OK, they didn't take the NFHS test, they are not registered with UHSAA and don't actually ref high school games in Utah.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by rsl

OK, they...don't actually ref high school games in Utah.

Based on....

Originally Posted by rsl

Just back from coaching my 11 year-olds rec game.

...that's usually a given.

[Rich]

It's amazing how many coaches want a three second violation to be the best call we make all night.

I wouldn't nail you, but if I were you I wouldn't get my hopes up that I'll suddenly call one, either.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rsl

That is unfortunate. I am not really comfortable pushing the referees that hard, and in an 11 year-old game I probably won't do it again. But does explain why high school coaches (whose paycheck depends on winning) push us so hard when we are carrying whistles. Good learning experience for me.

So don't do it. I worked three eleven year old games today, and the guys that followed me were young kids. Frankly, coaches that try to work officials at this level should be rung up quickly.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by snaqwells

frankly, coaches that try to work officials at this level should be rung up quickly.

+100

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by rsl

I think our county rec has come up with their own test........

Many rec leagues do indeed have their own test, which has two questions.


1. Do you have a whistle? (If not, no problem. We'll provide one for you.)

2. What time can you be here?

[rsl]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

When I identify myself as a coach on this board I expect to get some flak, but there is another side. I asked politely to watch for 3-seconds, there was advantage on the no-calls (baskets were being scored), and the three consecutive calls on my guys were all off ball and called by trail, not lead, the entire exchange was less than a minute in the first quarter, and I was a model citizen otherwise.

I know it is HTBT, but if any of you guys were there I doubt you would have even thought of a T.

My point is that it is nice to see it from the coaches side, and I think it will make me a better ref next year.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by rsl

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

When I identify myself as a coach on this board I expect to get some flak, but there is another side. I asked politely to watch for 3-seconds, there was advantage on the no-calls (baskets were being scored), and the three consecutive calls on my guys were all off ball and called by trail, not lead, the entire exchange was less than a minute in the first quarter, and I was a model citizen otherwise.

I know it is HTBT, but if any of you guys were there I doubt you would have even thought of a T.

My point is that it is nice to see it from the coaches side, and I think it will make me a better ref next year.

Here's what I'll say, and I'm not trying to bust your chops, just point something out.

You asked nicely for three seconds. But you went beyond that.

When the refs gave you their explanation for why it hadn't been called up to that point, IMO, from what you said you (to me at least) came across as a typical coach. Wanting the call because you feel like the other team is gaining an advantage, the ref's perspective be damned.

If I was working that game, and I were to tell you "Coach, we're trying to talk them out of it early, but if we keep seeing it, we'll start calling it," and you responded by basically saying "I don't care what you're doing, start calling it because they're scoring points," I would have been sorely tempted to ring you on the same call three times in a row too.

Bottom line, 11-year old rec league basketball is not the time to be riding officials. Not for a quarter, not for a couple of plays, not for anything. And I think your reply to the official who tried to explain the lack of the call was a form of riding. It wasn't atrocious, it wasn't earth shattering, but it was typical coach behavior. The kind of thing we roll our eyes at.

In short, just don't be "that" coach. Ask the refs to watch out for something, by all means. But ask once. Then, just focus on coaching your kids.

[Adam]

I'm with fiasco here. I was responding to your "is this how it's supposed to work" paragraph. Maybe that's ok for HS ball, but not 6th grade.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm with fiasco here.

I just fainted.