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Old Sat Nov 26, 2011, 01:57pm
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Can A Dribbler Set Her Own Screen ???

Varsity girls scrimmage today. I'm the odd man out sitting at the scoretable.

White player makes a steal at halfcourt and starts a breakaway to the basket. Blue defender, a very fast player, is about to catch up to White, so White purposely dribbles directly in front of Blue to prevent her from catching up to, and passing her, kind of like setting her own screen, as the ball handler. As they approach the basket White decides stop short, maybe figuring Blue will go past her, leaving her with a little "bunny" layup. The problem is, Blue doesn't go past White, but runs directly into White, knocking White to the floor before White can even start her shooting motion. Lead official charges Blue with a common foul.

Blue coach, who is a few feet away from me, says to me, "Isn't that like a screen? Doesn't the offensive player have to give the moving defender time and distance?" I only give it half a thought and reply that the player behind the play is "more responsible" for the contact, and thus the call was correct. He accepted my explanation.

On the drive home, I rethought the play. Was the call correct? Is this play a "guarding" situation, or a "screening" situation, or both?
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Nov 27, 2011 at 11:03am.
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Old Sat Nov 26, 2011, 02:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Was the call correct? Is this play a "guarding" situation, or a "screening" situation, or both?
. Either way, it's a defensive foul. The player in trail has the respobsibility to avoid contact when two players are taking the same path.
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Old Sat Nov 26, 2011, 02:09pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Either way, it's a defensive foul. The player in trail has the responsibility to avoid contact when two players are taking the same path.
If what you say is true, and I'm not saying that it isn't, then I gave a pretty good explanation to the coach. Not bad for a 10:00 a.m. scrimmage. Imagine how good my answer would have been if I had been fully awake.

Everybody agree with Snaqwells?
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Old Sat Nov 26, 2011, 02:39pm
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4-40-6
When screening an opponent who is moving in the same path and direction as the screener, the player behind is responsible if contact is made because the player in front slows up or stops and the player behind overruns his/her opponent.

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Old Sat Nov 26, 2011, 03:16pm
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Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
4-40-6
When screening an opponent who is moving in the same path and direction as the screener, the player behind is responsible if contact is made because the player in front slows up or stops and the player behind overruns his/her opponent.

Bingo.

Thanks to Snaqwells and BktBallRef.

Maybe I should work all my games in the morning. Apparently I do my best work when I'm half asleep?
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Old Sat Nov 26, 2011, 05:44pm
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Apparently I do my best work when I'm half asleep?
I've heard that!
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Old Sat Nov 26, 2011, 06:02pm
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I'm the odd man out...
Surely you jest.
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Old Sat Nov 26, 2011, 08:04pm
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Surely you jest.
That's such a setup.......
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Old Sun Nov 27, 2011, 02:32am
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Yeah, I've been doing this a looong time

Quote: "Isn't that like a screen? Doesn't the offensive player have to give the moving defender time and distance?"
It may be 30 years or more, ago, this was the interpretation. It lasted, I think, just one year.
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Old Sun Nov 27, 2011, 09:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
Quote: "Isn't that like a screen? Doesn't the offensive player have to give the moving defender time and distance?"
It may be 30 years or more, ago, this was the interpretation. It lasted, I think, just one year.
It IS like a screen, and the screening rules apply.
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Old Sun Nov 27, 2011, 12:58pm
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when a defender does not have LGP and causes illegal contact - then the defender has committed a foul. forget about the "screening" aspect of this play....the defender has interrupted the rythm, speed, balance, & quickness of the ball handler.
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Old Sun Nov 27, 2011, 01:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Varsity girls scrimmage today. I'm the odd man out sitting at the scoretable.

White player makes a steal at halfcourt and starts a breakaway to the basket. Blue defender, a very fast player, is about to catch up to White, so White purposely dribbles directly in front of Blue to prevent her from catching up to, and passing her, kind of like setting her own screen, as the ball handler. As they approach the basket White decides stop short, maybe figuring Blue will go past her, leaving her with a little "bunny" layup. The problem is, Blue doesn't go past White, but runs directly into White, knocking White to the floor before White can even start her shooting motion. Lead official charges Blue with a common foul.

Blue coach, who is a few feet away from me, says to me, "Isn't that like a screen? Doesn't the offensive player have to give the moving defender time and distance?" I only give it half a thought and reply that the player behind the play is "more responsible" for the contact, and thus the call was correct. He accepted my explanation.

On the drive home, I rethought the play. Was the call correct? Is this play a "guarding" situation, or a "screening" situation, or both?

Billy:

Tony gave the correct NFHS Rules reference (the NCAA Rules for Guarding and Screening are the same as the NFHS). And your play is covered by NFHS R4-S40-A6.

Everybody should remember that:

1) The Guarding rules apply to only players who are on defense, that means that one team has TC and the other team does not. The Guarding rules do not apply when there is no TC by either team.

2) The Screening rules apply to all players (both offense and defense when there is TC by one of the teams) and when there is no TC by either team.

Therefore, A1 who has PC can set screens and must follow the Screening rules. That also means that A1, while in PC, can be guilty of a blocking foul. A good example is A1 is stationary and facing her basket while dribbling the ball in her front court half way between the top of the key and the Center Circle on a line between the two baskets. B1 is running (at full speed) from A's backcourt to A's front court in a straight line that parallels the line between the two baskets; her path will take her just to the right of A1. Just as B1 is going to pass A1, A1 dribbles into B1's path and B1 runs into A1. This is a blocking foul by A1 because A1 did not give Time-and-Distance when setting her screen on B1.

I had this play in a 14U game in the Conn. Starters Girls Summer Classic in Hartford, CT, about ten years ago; it was quickly followed by a TF on Team A's HC, .

MTD, Sr.

MTD, Sr.
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Old Sun Nov 27, 2011, 02:03pm
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I had this play in a 14U game in the Conn. Starters Girls Summer Classic in Hartford, CT, about ten years ago.
Which is the main reason why we have hired more highly qualified border guards here in the Constitution State.
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Old Sun Nov 27, 2011, 02:13pm
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Same as driving a car..........you rear end someone(pun intended) you're at fault.
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Old Sun Nov 27, 2011, 02:29pm
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Always An Exception To The Rule ...

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Same as driving a car, you rear end someone, you're at fault.
Unless their brake lights didn't work.
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