Communication with Table

[9redskin4]

This has probably been discussed before, but after searching he boards for a while I figured I should just start a new thread.

I would like the scorer's table to be better informed for the games I do(NFHS). Especially the warning horn for disqualified players. I have yet to find a single table that does this correctly. I want to communicate this with them but don't want them to think I am coming off as a "know-it-all jerk". Are there any suggestions from you guys on ways to handle educating the table? Maybe there is a simplified chart/card out there that can be handed to the table at the beginning of each game??

[JRutledge]

I think the best you can do is to give them your expectations and be very specific. Unfortunately even at higher levels there are just some that think they know more than they do and you will have to deal with it. The main problem is many table people tell you, "I have been doing this for awhile" and then they do not listen to much else you have to say.

Peace

[grunewar]

This is just a set-up thread for the Eagle isn't it?

[ToolinFool]

With over 10 years of table experience, I would just like to remind you that those Table Personal are the only officials in the building that are not getting paid. They are volunteering their time to help the kids. So if you talk down to them like they don't know anything, just remember that they see a lot of games and many officials with varying degrees of competence themselves. Sorry, but I had to get that off my chest.

[BayStateRef]

I find it best to be honest and straight-forward...and always but the "blame" on me. So I say something like, "I know you have been doing this a long time, but could you please help me out tonight. I need a warning horn 15 seconds before each time out ends. That means if there is an injury or disqualification, it will be 5 seconds after I notify you to start the 20-second clock. For a 30-second timeout, it needs to be 15 seconds after the timeout starts. For a 60-second timeout, it comes at 45 seconds. Do you have a stop watch to time this?"

I make them answer that last question. It helps a lot. A couple of times the table crew tells me the warnings are programmed into the scoreboard. Sometimes it is met with the blank look that says, "Hey Ref, I've been here longer than you." Every now and then, I get a thank your from the table crew.

There is a new NFHS mechanic this year, where the reporting official points to the table to start the clock for a timeout. This is a good excuse to use to review these points.

(And as for the table crew being volunteer: not around here. HS varsity table personnel are paid.)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ToolinFool

With over 10 years of table experience, I would just like to remind you that those Table Personal are the only officials in the building that are not getting paid.

Not here. And, sometimes, they get paid more than the officials.

I do agree that it's a two-way street.

I try to find a time to say thank-you near the end of the game. And, if they've done a good job, to say so -- and to let game administration know this.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ToolinFool

With over 10 years of table experience, I would just like to remind you that those Table Personal are the only officials in the building that are not getting paid. They are volunteering their time to help the kids. So if you talk down to them like they don't know anything, just remember that they see a lot of games and many officials with varying degrees of competence themselves. Sorry, but I had to get that off my chest.

Well I have to get this off my chest. Not only is table personally paid more in many cases, the same goes for the chain crew in football games in multiple cases.

Secondly when something goes wrong, they do not blame the table, they blame the officials on the floor. It is like anything in life, you need to know your role or place in the game. Table people are there to assist, so if they do not know that we will have a lot of problems.

Many of us have had enough bad table people to only have a miserable night as a result. If you cannot handle being given instruction, then that position is not for you IMO.

Peace

[tomegun]

+1 on the table personnel getting paid in Southern Nevada. They are also part of our association, attend meetings and receive instruction.

[TimTaylor]

I always take the time pregame to introduce myself to each of the table crew by name and shake their hand and welcome them as part of the officiating crew - maybe joke that it means during the game they can cheer for anyone they want...as long as they're wearing black & white striped shirts.

Then I'll usually say something like "I know you've all probably done this many times, but I'd like to briefly go over some basics to make sure we're all on the same page and communicating the way we're supposed to." Reviewing the new mechanic, as mentioned by BayStateRef, could be a good way to segue into the subject of the warning horn. I keep it brief and to the point, then ask if they have any questions. Unless something strange comes up, the whole process takes less than a minute.

For the record, most of the table crews I've worked with have been great. Sure there's the occasional prima donna, but fortunately they're few and far between.

[Rufus]

I've worked as the R for sub-varsity only but always make a point of introducing myself and explaining to them the timing on horns. Just this past weekend we discussed the 20 seconds for players who fouled out and he diligently gave a horn at 15 seconds left and when it was done.

The point about checking to be sure they have a timing device is a good one too. This weekend the clock operator didn't have a watch but he pulled out his phone that had a stopwatch app.

I'll also go check the official book at the end of every period to make sure the books agree with each other as well as with the scoreboard. That's a great time to crack a joke with them (something like, after completing the review, "Thanks, and you guys are doing great, I don't care what my partner says about you"). Obviously you need to be judicial in using humor but I've found it a good way to make the table feel like part of the team.

Anything that can build rapport with the table crew is good in my opinion and will pay dividends during the game.

[Mark Padgett]

Of course, none of the table personnel for the kids rec leagues I work get paid. I like to approach them just prior to the game and ask them if they've done this before. About half the time, the answer is no. I then say, "You are familiar with the metric system, aren't you?" Usually I get a smile/chuckle but every once in a while one of them will say, "Are you serious?", especially if it's a younger kid.

Also, if they do a good job, I have two comments:

1) "You're doing such a good job I'll see to it you get paid double!"
2) "You're doing a great job. Can you stay and work the rest of the games?"

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by ToolinFool

With over 10 years of table experience, I would just like to remind you that those Table Personal are the only officials in the building that are not getting paid.

So that means it okay if they don't know WTF they're doing?

Originally Posted by grunewar

This is just a set-up thread for the Eagle isn't it?

Wait for it...wait for it!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Not here. And, sometimes, they get paid more than the officials.

That always amazes me. Same thing up here in Wisconsin, too.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by tomegun

+1 on the table personnel getting paid in Southern Nevada. They are also part of our association, attend meetings and receive instruction.

You better delete this post before chseagle sees it.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by grunewar

This is just a set-up thread for the Eagle isn't it?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

You better delete this post before chseagle sees it.

Actually all I have to say about this from the perspective of table personnel is to pregame with them your expectations and remind them of any regulations that directly affect their duties/responsibilities.

As to being part of the same association as the floor officials, I wish we did do that here but it just is not going to happen, so I'll just continue following the recommendations in the back of the officials manual.