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-   -   Greatest player - really (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/8301-greatest-player-really.html)

TriggerMN Fri Apr 18, 2003 10:11am
Laimbeer was here over the summer, as Rochester, MN held the 14-under girls national AAU tournament. He had a daughter on one of the teams out of Detroit, but she didn't play very many minutes...

Oh, by the way...

Jordan. I can't believe there's even an argument.

A Pennsylvania Coach Fri Apr 18, 2003 10:23am
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Another great "Cheers" moment. The Cheers gang has a basketball team and they're scheduled to play a rival bar's team. The other team wants to have Kevin McHale on its team, and the Cheers gang agrees b/c they have an X-ray of Kevin's foot, showing that it's broken. So they figure he can't really play, so let him be on the team. Well, Kevin shows up for the game and destroys the Cheers team. Later, back at Cheers, Kevin shows up and thanks the guys for being good sports. Sam shows Kevin the X-ray and asks how he could play on a broken foot. Kevin takes a good long look at the X-ray and says:

"It's not my foot. The small print says 'Gorilla'. [Laughing] Hey, maybe it's Lambier!" :D

Chuck
In the category of bball players trying to be funny, I'll take Jordan on SNL. The bit with Stuart Smalley was classic, and his appearance with the Superfans was also hilarious.

Now somebody mention Kareem on Airplane! and we'll have a good discussion.

Andy Fri Apr 18, 2003 11:12am
Quote:
Originally posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

In the category of bball players trying to be funny, I'll take Jordan on SNL. The bit with Stuart Smalley was classic, and his appearance with the Superfans was also hilarious.

Now somebody mention Kareem on Airplane! and we'll have a good discussion.
Airplane was just an all-around classic!

Charles Barkley's SNL hosting appearance wasn't bad either!

CYO Butch Fri Apr 18, 2003 12:06pm
Re: I'm just curious about your thoguht process.
 
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Padgett
To make a comparison of how much better he was than anyone else who played then, you would have to compare Michael's talent to that of a reserve guard on a .500 ballclub. We all know there are better players than that that have played over the past decade.
If the players that he played against were not very good, why do you feel he he was so great? How can his greatness truly be measured? :confused:

IMHO, one of the most important aspects of how great a player a person is, is how did they compare to other great players that they played against. I don't know that being the greatest player of your time makes you the greatest ever if you never played other great players.
By this criteon, it has to be Russel! Russel regularly stopped/topped Chamberlain. It was one of the classic match-ups in sports history. Russel was the only player to stop Chamberlain. He is also the only one to face, and consistenly defeat head-to-head, another contender for best of all time. And he did it while giving up 5 or more inches. Even in his era, he was not big for a center, but he he proved you only have to be "big enough".

ChampaignBlue Fri Apr 18, 2003 01:20pm
"Best" is such a subjective word. Let me add another "Best" catagory. Dikembe Mutombo went to Georgetown on an academic scholorship in pre-med. He is now using a bunch of his millions to build a hospital and med school in his native Congo. Get's my vote for best off the court. Jim

JAdams Fri Apr 18, 2003 03:49pm
Best Single Game Stat Ever
 
Several years ago USA Today surmised that the single game stat that is the most likely to never be broken in the major sports of the U.S. is the 50+ rebounds in a game by Wilt. Their logic was that the single game point record will be eventually be broken by a player with four teammates doing nothing but feeding him the ball, but they won't be able to control rebounds like that. Can't argue with that logic.

Mark Padgett Fri Apr 18, 2003 04:46pm
Re: Best Single Game Stat Ever
 
Quote:
Originally posted by JAdams
Several years ago USA Today surmised that the single game stat that is the most likely to never be broken in the major sports of the U.S. is the 50+ rebounds in a game by Wilt. Their logic was that the single game point record will be eventually be broken by a player with four teammates doing nothing but feeding him the ball, but they won't be able to control rebounds like that. Can't argue with that logic.
I agree that's the best single game stat ever. Wilt also holds a career stat that can never be broken, only tied.

Any guesses?

Jurassic Referee Fri Apr 18, 2003 05:27pm
Re: Re: Best Single Game Stat Ever
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Padgett
[/B]
I agree that's the best single game stat ever. Wilt also holds a career stat that can never be broken, only tied.

Any guesses? [/B][/QUOTE]Yup,I'll guess!Wilt never ever fouled out of an NBA game in his career.

Unless you're talkin' about that "20,000 wimmen in a career" record!:D

Joe Fri Apr 18, 2003 06:00pm
I had diner with a guy who covered Pete when Pete
was at LSU. He braged that he once held Pete to 13 points
.................................. in 5 minutes.


Quote:
Originally posted by RecRef
Quote:
Originally posted by A Pennsylvania Coach
First you have to define "greatest player". That's at the heart of all these debates.

And what category do we put Maravich in?
I was a year behind Maravich at LSU plus I attended a number of New Orleans Jazz games when he was there. All that I can say is that the things he could do with a basketball were beyond description. If he would have had the teams behind him, like MJ did with the Bulls, there is no doubt in my mind that he would be considered the best there ever was.

Joe Fri Apr 18, 2003 06:12pm
>he could not believe the intensity with which Michael Jordan played defense.

>I think that while all these players were great players, Michael is the greatest player ever.

YES! MJ is the best ever because he played *both* ends of
the floor. Russell is #2: because he won at every level
and was perhaps the greatest defender of all time.

Defense, in all sports (look at the last three Super Bowls), is key to championship level success. Even Shaq's group didn't get over the top until Phil ( a hard nosed defender in his day) showed up and showed 'em how.




Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Comparing him to the players of his era is much easier than trying to compare him to Mikan, Russell, Chamberlain, or Robertson. That was a different time and a different game. And it was certainly basketball at a more pure form than what we have today. These were great players but the game has changed so much since the 50's and 60's.

Certainly Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson and Larry Bird were great offensive players and great team leaders who led their teams to multiple championships. Michael played a somewhat more spectacular game than Magic and Larry always reminded me of a basketball version of Pete Rose. Also, Magic and Larry were surrounded by Hall of Fame players, which Michael never was.

But neither Magic nor Larry played with the defensive intensity that Michael played with. For example, after serving as an asst. coach on the 1992 Olympic Dream Team, Mike Kryzewski was asked what was the most surprising thing that he learned working with NBA players. He stated that the answer was easy - he could not believe the intensity with which Michael Jordan played defense.

I think that while all these players were great players, Michael is the greatest player ever.

My 2 pennies.

Jurassic Referee Fri Apr 18, 2003 06:32pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Joe


Defense, in all sports (look at the last three Super Bowls), is key to championship level success. Even Shaq's group didn't get over the top until Phil ( a hard nosed defender in his day) showed up and showed 'em how.
Phil Jackson may have been a hard nosed defender,but he wasn't personally known as a particularly "good" defender.He was a "banger",not a "stopper".He admitted that in his autobiography--written in his flower child days in the '70s.

Joe Fri Apr 18, 2003 06:40pm
Hey, I'll give Lambier and his crew their due. Once again
an example where defense = champioships.

Jordan over rated? LOL, name the ONLY other player to
lead the NBA in scoring after turning 30. The other
guy only did it once, and at age 30. Jordan did it
4 or 5 times, winning championships in some of the same years, AND being all NBA on the defensive side at that age too. Best ppg career average and he plays into his 40's.

I'm not sure about this one, did anyone else lead the
NBA in scoring and get named 1st team NBA on defense
in the same year(s)?



Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by fletch_irwin_m
I will give Jordan the most OVER RATED player title.
Overrated? Now, even though I think Lambier was a thug, Ill give him that he was a strong rebounder and a pretty good outside shooter. At least you didn't deny that he was a thug. But Jordan, overrated? Yeah, right.

Joe Fri Apr 18, 2003 06:45pm
True...I did't say "good," but the point is he is
defensive minded, and he clearly brought that to
LA. Not that they are a great defensive club now, but
they got better enough to turn the corner.


Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by Joe


Defense, in all sports (look at the last three Super Bowls), is key to championship level success. Even Shaq's group didn't get over the top until Phil ( a hard nosed defender in his day) showed up and showed 'em how.
Phil Jackson may have been a hard nosed defender,but he wasn't personally known as a particularly "good" defender.He was a "banger",not a "stopper".He admitted that in his autobiography--written in his flower child days in the '70s.

BktBallRef Fri Apr 18, 2003 10:15pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Joe
I'm not sure about this one, did anyone else lead the
NBA in scoring and get named 1st team NBA on defense
in the same year(s)?
Hey Joe, to be even more precise, Jordan led the league with a scoring avg. of 37.1 ppg and was also NBA Defensive Player of the Year in 1988. Other than Wilt's high scoring years, that's the highest single season scoring average and total points, over 3000, in NBA history.

All in the same year.

just another ref Fri Apr 18, 2003 11:23pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Joe
....name the ONLY other player to
lead the NBA in scoring after turning 30.
Could it be Rick Barry?


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