What to do...

[ref2coach]

Below is the clip from our State's official website.
An official is prohibited from working in an athletic contest in which a member of his/her immediate family
- son, daughter, brother, sister, mother, father, husband, or wife - is playing or is serving as a coach for
either team. If an official is a teacher, the official is prohibited from working in an athletic contest if one of
the teams represents the school in which the official is employed as a teacher unless otherwise approved by
the Executive Director. All varsity assignments must be assigned by a recognized and approved TSSAA
Local Association.

In TN you would not be prohibited from working a sport at a school just because you child attends said school.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Every possible conflict, no. But where you kids currently attend, easy.
There is no need for that if you wish to maintain your professionalism.

I don't see what professionalism has to do with this argument? Professionalism would be if you didn't think you could adjudicate your duties and responsibilities with integrity and you remove yourself from the contest. I think your statement would read better as

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Every possible conflict, no. But where you kids currently attend, easy.
There is no need for that if you wish to maintain your squeaky clean politically correct image.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If there are enough alternatives in the area, there is no need to put yourself into that situation. Here, with ~75 HS, how hard is it to avoid one school. Plenty of other games out there and plenty of officials who can do that game. It is generally not permitted here...but sometimes happens in Christmas tournaments.

Which is why I wrote, "Talk to the assignor and do what you're comfortable with." We do not have 75 HS here, less than 40 for our association, so the situation will vary by official.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by ref2coach

In TN you would not be prohibited from working a sport at a school just because you child attends said school.

Oregon doesn't prohibit it in general for the regular season, but the Portland Association does.

It is not an absolute....it is a matter of how many schools and organization covers and how many officials there are. In smaller associations that cover few schools, it would be perfectly acceptable and perhaps the best option in some instances. In larger organizations, it is easy to avoid it so why risk a problem.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by deecee

I don't see what professionalism has to do with this argument? Professionalism would be if you didn't think you could adjudicate your duties and responsibilities with integrity and you remove yourself from the contest. I think your statement would read better as

"Professionalism" is part of "ethical" conduct. In the science/engineering/medical/dental and legal professions, to act in an unprofessional manner is to act in an unethical manner. We like to say that sports officiating is an advocation, but it is really a profession masquerdating as a profession.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If it these are varsity games or varsity night games like a prelim/JV game I would say not to work the games for the reason you stated. If the games are lower level games where very few people are in the gym, I would not find a problem with you working those games. That matters because they are probably trying to fill the games and need people that will be there without much problem. That being said, if it really bothers you, then give back the games and give a reason why and explain you had them blocked off.

Peace

Rut:

It was as great weekend of football, the Buckeyes won, the Wolverines didn't win (of course the didn't lose either), and the Penguins beat the Leathernecks. Have a great football post-season.

MTD, Sr.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

"Professionalism" is part of "ethical" conduct. In the science/engineering/medical/dental and legal professions, to act in an unprofessional manner is to act in an unethical manner. We like to say that sports officiating is an advocation, but it is really a profession masquerdating as a profession.

MTD, Sr.

MTD, I misspoke. Everyone is throwing around professionalism but it seems like they aren't applying any standards to it. I agree with your statement wholeheartedly. Being a "professional" official means carrying out your duties with ethics and integrity. Allowing personal conflicts to interfere with your job is unprofessional IMO. There are some few people, and I like to think I am one, who can be rational and reasonable and NOT allow personal conflicts to interfere with their duties.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by deecee

I don't see what professionalism has to do with this argument? Professionalism would be if you didn't think you could adjudicate your duties and responsibilities with integrity and you remove yourself from the contest. I think your statement would read better as

It was a bit of sarcasm intended as a jab at Rut regarding his stance regarding showing up dressed for MS games in contrast to working a game, presumably HS or higher, where you kid is a fan of one of the teams.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by deecee

MTD, I misspoke. Everyone is throwing around professionalism but it seems like they aren't applying any standards to it. I agree with your statement wholeheartedly. Being a "professional" official means carrying out your duties with ethics and integrity. Allowing personal conflicts to interfere with your job is unprofessional IMO. There are some few people, and I like to think I am one, who can be rational and reasonable and NOT allow personal conflicts to interfere with their duties.

Sometimes even allowing the appearance of possible conflict is considered unprofessional.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Sometimes even allowing the appearance of possible conflict is considered unprofessional.

That works well for people in larger areas, it does not work for people in smaller areas where I originally came from, which is why really this is up to the assignor and what policy they want to have about who works a game and when. Remember the possibility of conflict is usually solely based on the people in those communities, not the officiating community. And why they assume someone lives in a community must be for a team in that community. This is also another reason you see this as an issue at the lower levels and rarely see this at the college or pro level at all. There are pro officials that grew up loving a home town team and they work that home town team which I would think would be more of a conflict, but they still work those games.

Peace

[Adam]

Until now, this has always been easy for me. I grew up out of state, and my kids were in elementary school. This year, my daughter is in ms, but frankly, I'm not worried about it since she's not playing yet (6th grade can't play basketball).

[Rufus]

I've blocked out my kids' MS before and added their HS this year now that the oldest is attending (none of them play basketball for their schools). It's a no-brainer for me simply because you don't even want to give a hint of impropriety or give anyone an excuse to question your judgment/ethics.

There are guys in my association who teach and block out their own school plus the school those kids will attend later. Extreme? Maybe, but it's one less thing to worry about.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by deecee

MTD, I misspoke. Everyone is throwing around professionalism but it seems like they aren't applying any standards to it. I agree with your statement wholeheartedly. Being a "professional" official means carrying out your duties with ethics and integrity. Allowing personal conflicts to interfere with your job is unprofessional IMO. There are some few people, and I like to think I am one, who can be rational and reasonable and NOT allow personal conflicts to interfere with their duties.

I think you've misunderstood the entire point. I don't think very many officials think they could not be professional and work a game for a school to which they have a reason to have allegiance to - I think most believe they could be unbiased and could, in all likelihood, do exactly that.

The issue is PERCEPTION. Someone there at the game is likely to know who you are, and that you have the possible allegiance. You could work the perfect game, missing no calls - but still have several close "judgments" to make ... and if ANY of those went toward the school you have the perceived bias toward (even if every call is dead right), the PERCEPTION will be that you (and the assigning organization) cheated their team.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I think you've misunderstood the entire point. I don't think very many officials think they could not be professional and work a game for a school to which they have a reason to have allegiance to - I think most believe they could be unbiased and could, in all likelihood, do exactly that.

The issue is PERCEPTION. Someone there at the game is likely to know who you are, and that you have the possible allegiance. You could work the perfect game, missing no calls - but still have several close "judgments" to make ... and if ANY of those went toward the school you have the perceived bias toward (even if every call is dead right), the PERCEPTION will be that you (and the assigning organization) cheated their team.

My question to you is when is that not the case anyway? There are people that think we are bias because we share a race with a certain team, they think we live in a certain area or from a certain area or if I work a certain conference or had a team previously. That bar changes with the wind.

I agree that if you can avoid working at a place where you have some actual ties to with a family member that is not the best place to work a varsity game. But if it is lower level games and you were available more power to those. We are never going to make everyone happen and even if we miss a call people draw conclusions that are not there whether a family member is associated with that school or not.

I had two playoff football games one year with the two local HS in my area in back to back weeks. The home school tried to accuse us of being bias or being fair until I told him, "I live right down the street." He stopped complaining and they won the game, but every call seemed to go against them. It does not matter what we do, they will find some slight because they are not looking through objective eyes.

Peace

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

My question to you is when is that not the case anyway? There are people that think we are bias because we share a race with a certain team, they think we live in a certain area or from a certain area or if I work a certain conference or had a team previously. That bar changes with the wind.

Rut - While I agree with you that they're going to question our judgment regardless why give them yet another reason to question that judgment? What fans/coaches/players think of your judgment is not in our control. Not giving them further, and in this case actual, ammo to question our judgment is in our control. Why even introduce it as a possibility when it's easily avoided?