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-   -   Backcourt? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/81863-backcourt.html)

stiffler3492 Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 792058)
No doubt about that. Just that Nevada is a lawyer and likes to play word games.

I'm no english major either...I prefer words less than four syllables.

Adam Fri Oct 07, 2011 02:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 792055)
Well, what I was going for was how the new team control on throw in rule affected backcourt violations.

The general consensus seems to be that what I had was no violation, because there was never player control in the frontcourt.

PC in the FC is not required for a violation. The committee made it clear that the change is only intended to affect whether FTs are shot on fouls.

just another ref Fri Oct 07, 2011 02:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 792055)
Well, what I was going for was how the new team control on throw in rule affected backcourt violations.

The new team control rule itself does not specifically affect the backcourt violation, because the throw-in does not originate in frontcourt or backcourt. It originates out of bounds.

just another ref Fri Oct 07, 2011 02:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 792118)
PC in the FC is not required for a violation.

9-9-1: A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in player and team control in the frontcourt.....

Adam Fri Oct 07, 2011 02:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 792120)
9-9-1: A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in player and team control in the frontcourt.....

That's a sloppy way of trying to make the BC rule stay the same in light of the TC rule change.

As Nevada pointed out, this change in wording affects plays that were violations under the old wording, and the committee made it clear their intent was not to change the BC rule.

BillyMac Fri Oct 07, 2011 06:52pm

Confused ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 792120)
9-9-1: A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in player and team control in the frontcourt.

Team A has team control in their backcourt. A1, dribbling, has player control in the backcourt. A1 throws a pass ahead to A2, who is in the frontcourt, and who is not expecting the pass. The passed ball hits A2 in the back of the head (thus, he is neither holding, nor, is he dribbling the ball, so no player control), the ball bounces off of A2's head, bounces into the backcourt, and the ball is picked up by A3, who is now holding the ball.

According to just another ref's definition above, this is not a backcourt violation.

Man, I'm confused, and I haven't even started my weekend "bender".

Camron Rust Fri Oct 07, 2011 07:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 792167)
Team A has team control in their backcourt. A1, dribbling, has player control in the backcourt. A1 throws a pass ahead to A2, who is in the frontcourt, and who is not expecting the pass. The passed ball hits A2 in the back of the head (thus, he is neither holding, nor, is he dribbling the ball, so no player control), the ball bounces off of A2's head, bounces into the backcourt, and the ball is picked up by A3, who is now holding the ball.

According to just another ref's definition above, this is not a backcourt violation.

Man, I'm confused, and I haven't even started my weekend "bender".

While that IS what the rule says, they NFHS has also stated that the only effect of the new rule is to be whether you shoot FTs or not when a foul occurs during a throwin. They have, once again, create a rule change that, as written, means something entirely different than what they say it is suppose to do.

Nevadaref Sun Oct 09, 2011 03:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 792125)
That's a sloppy way of trying to make the BC rule stay the same in light of the TC rule change.

As Nevada pointed out, this change in wording affects plays that were violations under the old wording, and the committee made it clear their intent was not to change the BC rule.

Okay, I should have written "the new wording of the rule (9-9-1) requires both PLAYER and TEAM control" as there is no "new" rule, the NFHS simply changed existing ones.

The exact text of the NFHS in the front of the new case book is "The change primarily affects how foul penalties will be administered." Clearly "primarily" is not "exclusively" so the NFHS does allow for other implications of these changes. One of those is the impact upon backcourt violations.
Please see 4.12.2 Situation part (b) ruling for this sentence, "There is no backcourt violation in (b) since player and team control had not yet been established in Team A's frontcourt before the ball went into Team A's backcourt."

Let's hope for an internet interpretation to clarify this newly created mess which Mary left us before departing. :(

BillyMac Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:09am

I'm Leaving, You Guys Take Care Of This ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 792288)
This newly created mess which Mary left us before departing.

Maybe that's why she left?

Adam Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 792119)
The new team control rule itself does not specifically affect the backcourt violation, because the throw-in does not originate in frontcourt or backcourt. It originates out of bounds.

I forgot to do this sooner, but this is just wrong.

just another ref Sun Oct 09, 2011 03:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 792322)
I forgot to do this sooner, but this is just wrong.

What is wrong?

Adam Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 792351)
What is wrong?

The fact that the throw originates from OOB, and thus neither FC nor BC, is not sufficient to say the rule change does not affect BC violations. Especially in light of the fact that the rule does in fact affect BC violations.


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