Charge on Syracuse steal & dunk

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
It looked to me like the ball was through and therefore, should have counted. Remember the NCAA men and NFHS rules are different on this as there is no airborne shooter in NCAA men. As for the foul, I think the defender was there in time and that it was the correct call. I'll also note that if Texas had been in the one and one they should have shot free throws, since it would not be a team control foul. I don't think they were at the time, so I believe they got this one right. Someone else can confirm this.

A nit, but in fact NCAA men's rules do include the airborne shooter, just like NCAA women's & NFHS. The difference is that NCAA men's PC rule do not include the airborne shooter.

OK, my take on the play was usually this will be a no call. The defender was well under the basket (I know, I know) and the contact was made well after the ball was released. Hard to see how B1 was disadvantaged, just hold the whistle & play on.

BTW, I'm watching the UCONN-Texas womens game, there was just a beautiful PC foul called on Texas! Secondary defender came over to help on the drive to the basket, bang-bang contact, "that way!". Nice. I kinda think that fist thing the women's do is cool.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
BTW, I'm watching the UCONN-Texas womens game, there was just a beautiful PC foul called on Texas! Secondary defender came over to help on the drive to the basket, bang-bang contact, "that way!". Nice. I kinda think that fist thing the women's do is cool.

Yup, real good call. I thought the officiating was excellent in the UConn game. I only watched snippets of the first game.

I was glad to see the Huskies win, since they're pretty local to me, but I thought the game was not very fun to watch. Very sloppy, tons of turnovers. But the thing that really got my attention was that it seemed like on 90% of the possessions, somebody ended up on the floor. It was like they couldn't keep their feet under them. I don't think anybody jumped more than about 8 inches off the floor all night.

But the officials were excellent, and I mean that sincerely.

Chuck

[Mark Dexter]

Per Men's NCAA rules, a released shot followed by a PC foul will result in the shot being counted.

I think the big problem on this play (assuming we're talking the same one) was the TV angle - watching live, I nearly screamed at the TV that there was no foul. They finally showed a TV replay with the actual foul:

[Bart Tyson]

From the picture, the only part of the defender's body under the basket is the head. I would have to say, I think the PC call was in order, however, i thought the contact was before the release of the ball.

[devdog69]

Great picture Mark, you must have had a nice seat.

[Camron Rust]

Further, the NCAA/NBA interpretations regarding a position under the basket does not apply to baseline drives. The position under the basket in defending a baseline drive can indeed be a legal guarding position (even in the NBA) and can draw a charge. The offensive player my be attempting a reverse, in which case, the position under the basket is in the path to the basket where on a drive from the top of the key, the offensive player can not do a reverse from behind the backboard.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
Further, the NCAA/NBA interpretations regarding a position under the basket does not apply to baseline drives.

The NCAA men's interpretation is the same as NF. The defender is allowed to be anyplace on the floor. Not everybody calls it that way, but that's the interpretation.

In the NBA, the Restricted Area doesn't have anything to do with where the drive comes from. The rule is that a secondary defender cannot draw an offensive foul while standing in the RA. Notice that the primary defender CAN draw an offensive foul, even if inside the semi-circle. And even the secondary defender can draw the offensive foul if the play starts inside the lower defensive box (which is the lane, extended 2 feet on each side).

Just throwin' it out there.

Chuck

[Woodee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

This philosophy that Woodee is espousing is the cause of the problem. Since many officials, not just Woodee (I'm not picking on him personally), hold this view and are calling the game in this manner, coaches and fans are starting to expect this PC foul to not be called.
My feelings on this are:
This is not the NBA, there is not a semi-circle on the floor, so follow the rules and call this a PC foul. If there is such a strong dislike of this call being made, then they will eventually change the rule, but until they do we should follow it.
Remember the NBA is a show. They are trying to make money. Therefore, they want the game to be as exciting as possible for fans to watch. They want more scoring and more dunks. That is what sells tickets. If that means giving the offensive player an edge when he is attacking the basket by taking away legal guarding position from the defense in that area, they are going to do it. But in NCAA men and NFHS it is still legal to play defense there.

I see your point. The photo by Mark says a lot. If the rules state that legal guarding position is anywhere on the floor, your correct. However standing under the goal can get someone hurt!.


I feel better now!!

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by devdog69
Great picture Mark, you must have had a nice seat.

I wish I were the photo credit on that one!

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Woodee

I see your point. The photo by Mark says a lot. If the rules state that legal guarding position is anywhere on the floor, your correct. However standing under the goal can get someone hurt!.


I feel better now!!

Hell - a lot of things can get a lot of people hurt. Whether the defender is in front of or behind an imaginary line has no bearing on injuries.

[Dan_ref]

Hey Mark, great find on that picture! Yep, that's the play I'm talking about, yep it looked more like a no-call from the original TV angle, yep, I might have gone with the PC also if this was my view.

[Woodee]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

Hell - a lot of things can get a lot of people hurt. Whether the defender is in front of or behind an imaginary line has no bearing on injuries.

I still don't understand how someone plays defense under the basket. The offensive player should have a place to come down, which is usually under the basket. I would never teach players to stand under the basket for defense. Suicide!

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Woodee
I still don't understand how someone plays defense under the basket. The offensive player should have a place to come down, which is usually under the basket.

If you take away that landing spot, then you force the shooter to pull up for a more difficult jump shot. Sounds like really good defense to me.

Chuck

[Woodee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

If you take away that landing spot, then you force the shooter to pull up for a more difficult jump shot. Sounds like really good defense to me.

Chuck

Gotcha! I watch a lot of NBA!!

[hhktwins]

i still just want to know how that basket counted. i'd like to know how many times a scored dunk has been accompanied by a player control foul. still seems impossible to me.