Somethin's rotten in Chapel Hill

[wizard]

Is anyone as confused about the whole Doherty firing, uh, I mean resignation as I am? Here's a excerpt from an si.com article:

Michael Jordan criticized his alma mater on Thursday, saying North Carolina shouldn't have forced coach Matt Doherty to resign. Remembering his days at North Carolina, Jordan said the school should have sided with the coach instead of malcontent players. "Kids get yelled at. I was yelled at, and there were times when I probably felt like I wanted to go home," he said. "But I'm a firm believer that 18-year-old kids shouldn't be able to determine a coach's future."

I think the biggest factor against Doherty or any future Tarheel coach is Dean Smith himself. I heard that he wasn't happy when Doherty brought in his own assistant and let Guthridge's guys go. Don't you think something like that would have been discussed ahead of time?

Plus, Coach Smith still has an office in the athletic department. Why? This can do nothing but harm the program in the long run.

If all Doherty did was lose it with some players, that's one thing. It not worth a dismissal, though. He must have stepped on a few too many "family" toes!

UNC had better wake up or they're gonna turn into a UCLA situation. Unrealistic expectations for over 25 years and counting.

[JRutledge]

We have advocated this behavior from younger people time and time again. We think that there is something wrong with getting yelled at or not getting your way. It just proves the hypocracy that this society like to promote. We on one hand say "the kids of this generation do not understand the same things we did," but we in the same breathe allow them choices that we never were given as kids ourselves.

It does not surprise me that this took place. It will happen again, because we allow people that have little education, little life experience and little knowledge of how the world works tell the people that have much more knowledge, life experience and anything else with age that they have no clue about.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by wizard
I think the biggest factor against Doherty or any future Tarheel coach is Dean Smith himself. I heard that he wasn't happy when Doherty brought in his own assistant and let Guthridge's guys go. Don't you think something like that would have been discussed ahead of time?

You heard wrong. It was discussed, understood, and approved before Doherty was hired. Actually, Doherty used Phil Ford as a counsel for the players, and Ford was a proponent for Doherty with the players. Hindsight being 20/20, he probably should have kept Ford. That was probably he first mistake but not because it pissed anybody off.

Plus, Coach Smith still has an office in the athletic department. Why? This can do nothing but harm the program in the long run.

Yes, he does. He's primary function is fundraising. His office doesn't have anything to do with the basketball program, although I'm sure Baddour still relies on his input and counsel. He'd be stupid not to. Smith doesn't go to games or practices, nor did he when Guthridge was coaching. The only time he's been involved with the team since his retirement was during Guthridge's tenure, when Gut would confer with him.

If all Doherty did was lose it with some players, that's one thing. It not worth a dismissal, though. He must have stepped on a few too many "family" toes!

How do you know that this was all he did? Are you privy to what goes on on Manning Street? Or fo you even know where Manning Street is?

And that's not all he did. He unnecessarily alienated people from Day 1. That includes athletic dept. staff, basketball dept. staff, players, and boosters. He was, at times, unapproachable and overly intense. He has had defections from the program every year since he arrived, and this year would have been no different. Keep in mind, the kids who would have left this year are players he recruited. He set up the meetings between the players and the AD, and he chose not to be at those meetings. So, if he was surprised at the outcome, and what the players had to say, it just goes to further show he wasn't in touch with what was going on.

UNC had better wake up or they're gonna turn into a UCLA situation. Unrealistic expectations for over 25 years and counting.

To the contrary, instead of continuing what Dean Smith built, Doherty wanted everyone to know that this was HIS program.

It probably could have been handled better and no one here is happy about it but it had to be done.

As far as something being rotten, well, it started smelling a lot better on Wednesday.

[Jurassic Referee]

The latest rumor is that the Heels are trying to lure Jim Harrick out of retirement.

[ChuckElias]

That's not a rumor. That's a belated April Fool's joke.

I hope

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
The latest rumor is that the Heels are trying to lure Jim Harrick out of retirement.

Hey, Steve Lavin is looking for work also!!

[wizard]

[/B][/QUOTE]

You heard wrong...

[/B][/QUOTE]


Wow, I think I touched a nerve. I didn't realize that you were there when Doherty was interviewed for the job.

I don't care if Smith is selling candy bars as a fundraiser, he's still around. it can't help. That's an awfully large shadow to work under. And if they go outside of the "family" for their next coach, he's going to have his own ideas. They usually do.

If I'm hired as the new coach ANYWHERE, I'm sure as heck going to tell everyone it's MY program, as well. You think Pitino went into Louisville thinking any differently? I'm not comparing Doherty and Pitino's coaching abilities, but somebody's got to be in charge. Why not the head coach.

No, I don't know where Manning Street is, but does that keep me from expressing my opinion. And if you read the major sports sites, writers such as Andy Katz and Mike DeCourcy have similar viewpoints.

I realize he turn people off inside the athletic department. (I think that's what I said.) But, overall this wasn't handled properly. And anyone who thinks it was is wearing carolina blue colored glasses.

[PGCougar]

C'mon folks. It's really not that complex. It's about winning. Coach Doherty didn't produce enough W's and the folks around UNC just don't adjust well to the NIT (that's Not In Tournament for the acronym challenged).

Face it. If he had produced winners, he'd still be there and none of this crap would have ever surfaced. Winning hides all sins, losing brings them to the surface. Hell, if Doherty had won the national tournament and said he fed his players milk-shakes made with UNC cow SH## from the Ag school, I bet half of the remaining coaches in this country would have lined up for the recipe with UNC filing for the patent.

Just didn't win enough - that's how I see it.

[whistleone]

One source says Larry Brown will be the next UNC Coach.

http://www.fanstop.com/fanclub/news/...m=ALL&id=36630

Will Roy Williams take the job after what was done to one of his former assistants (Doherty)?

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by PGCougar
C'mon folks. It's really not that complex. It's about winning. Coach Doherty didn't produce enough W's and the folks around UNC just don't adjust well to the NIT (that's Not In Tournament for the acronym challenged).

Face it. If he had produced winners, he'd still be there and none of this crap would have ever surfaced. Winning hides all sins, losing brings them to the surface. Hell, if Doherty had won the national tournament and said he fed his players milk-shakes made with UNC cow SH## from the Ag school, I bet half of the remaining coaches in this country would have lined up for the recipe with UNC filing for the patent.

Just didn't win enough - that's how I see it.

The program did that to themselves. They played around with their coach situation while Gutherige (sp?) was the head coach. Potential recruits stayed away not knowing if Gutherige was going to stay or go. And it was not like he was a young man either. Then they bring in Dohrety, who started with Dean Smith and Gutheridge's recruits and won over 20 games. The next year they did not have a good recruiting class mainly because of all the unstable actions by the UNC program. Then he has a good recruiting class this year, but they were the youngest team in America, with all the Freshman and Sophmores on that team. If Carolina did not want to be in this sitaution, they should not have hired a coach that was older and might not stick around that long. They should have hired a young coach then and maybe they might have had a little more success, or at least made the NCAA Tournament. That is largely the AD's fault. Even a problem that might be created with the firing of Doughrety now. I would not be surprised if they struggle next year, regardless of the coach.

Peace

[whistleone]

This whole mess started when Dean retired. The administration decided to give the job to Coach Gut (deservedly so) and the timing of Gut's retirement was bad for everyone in the "family" except Doherty. Brown and Karl were too happy in the NBA, Williams had just gotten two studs (Collison and Hinrich), Phil Ford was just coming off of a DUI situation and had no head coaching experience.

I don't think it's about wins and losses. Doherty took a young, unproven team and won the preseason NIT, suffered through a couple of tough breaks in the regular season and managed to win a couple games in the postseason NIT. In the end, Doherty fell victim to being a young coach in over his head.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by whistleone


In the end, Doherty fell victim to being a young coach in over his head.

I do not think he was over his head, they just did not put him in a good situation to succeed. Not much different than Mike Davis at Indiana or the UCLA coaches that have followed Wooden. Folks at these schools think there is a space waiting for them by birthright at the NCAA Tournament. And the UNC people will be calling for Roy Williams head or any other coach if they are not in Final Four every year. Coach G was there both years he was head coach.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by wizard
Wow, I think I touched a nerve.

No, just expressing my opinion, just as you expressed your, and disagreeing with some of your comments. You're responding to some of the nonsense that's been printed while I have a little more information than you do.

I didn't realize that you were there when Doherty was interviewed for the job.

No, I wasn't but this announcement was made when the press conference was held to annmounce his hiring. Their were also questions asked by reporters concerning the asst. coaches being released. So, yes, I know for a fact that this was addressed prior to his hiring.

I don't care if Smith is selling candy bars as a fundraiser, he's still around. it can't help. That's an awfully large shadow to work under.

Well, I guess the next guy better decide if he can tolerate that or not because the man damn sure ain't going anywhere.

I realize he turn people off inside the athletic department. (I think that's what I said.) But, overall this wasn't handled properly. And anyone who thinks it was is wearing carolina blue colored glasses.

I don't disagree that it wasn't handled properly. It was handled as poorly as the original Roy Williams debacle was. For those reasons and others, Dick Baddour needs to be the next one to go. But the fact remains that a change needed to be made.

Take a look at the article below. I think it backs up a lot of what I wrote this morning.

http://northcarolina.theinsiders.com/2/102882.html

For whistleone:

Larry Brown was not "too happy in the NBA." He wanted the job and was Smith's second choice after Roy Williams. But Baddour didn't want Brown, so Larry politely said no thank you.

[Jurassic Referee]

The latest rumor is that the Heels are trying to lure Jerry Tarkanian out of retirement!

[PGCougar]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
The latest rumor is that the Heels are trying to lure Jerry Tarkanian out of retirement!

I hear he has great recruiting skills...