Stationary defender, with a wide leg stance

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Amesman

I've wondered about a slightly similar scenario. Defender B1 is standing with feet shoulder width apart in the forecourt for a long time as the ball's being brought up the floor after a made basket. A1 eventually plows squarely into him and either B1 or both go to the floor. What's your call -- if B1 had a foot on the sideline?

Charge or nothing.

Having a foot on the sideline negates LGP and everything that LGP allows....the rule regarding having the feet inbounds is part of the definition of LGP. It doesn't make it open season on the player who doesn't have LGP.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

....the rule regarding having the feet inbounds is part of the definition of LGP. It doesn't make it open season on the player who doesn't have LGP.

I wouldn't define the contact Amesman describes as "open season." The rule (particularly case 4.23.3 B) only calls for a block here. If the dribbler is targeting the defender, however, that could change things.

Conversely, on Miami's play, I'm going with charge. The point about no LGP is well taken, but I say "intentional" overrules it (though not with an intentional foul). I've said before that if you push a defender with an outstretched limb, I don't care whether the defender has LGP, that's advantageous contact, hence a foul. I say Miami's play falls into this realm.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I wouldn't define the contact Amesman describes as "open season." The rule (particularly case 4.23.3 B) only calls for a block here. If the dribbler is targeting the defender, however, that could change things.

The case/rule that you cite is and is about the definition of legal guarding position.

Can a player draw a PC foul without LGP? Yes, in some circumstances (stationary, not jumping, etc.....all things that require LGP in order to be legal at that time of contact)

The reason the case is a block is that the defender who was guarding the dribbler (implying they were actively playing defense....moving) lost LGP when they stepped OOB and they needed LGP in order to not commit a block. The definitions of block and charge make no reference being inbounds or OOB....but sometimes depend on LGP (but not always).

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The definitions of block and charge make no reference being inbounds or OOB....

Right. LGP is defined by being inbounds (among other things).

Much of this, as I see it, depends on the contact created by the dribbler. In a general sense, this would be blocking, as you cannot have LGP if you're out of bounds. It has to be pretty nasty contact created by the dribbler to be a charge, though.