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Tue Mar 11, 2003, 11:23am
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How does it improve the game or the officiating TEAM on the floor for one partner to be watching the ball all over the court and calling violations all over the court?? Don't get me wrong, I agree with Bob's post...the phrasing we use out here in the wild west is "If it's blood and guts, come and get it"...had a play in my game Sat. where my C had to come across and get a block above the head of the key because there was a screen up high and my view was cut off...BUT, it was a block where both offensive and defensive players went to the floor...it needed to be called...I'm not so sure that an "unattended" guard who double dribbles in the back-court is one that NEEDS to be gotten by the distant partner...
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Tue Mar 11, 2003, 11:56am
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Steve, itÂ’s obvious you disagree with the "fishing" criticism and have talked to several people (and us) about it. I tend to agree that you should have passed up the whistle but I wasnÂ’t there. Even if the criticism wasnÂ’t warranted, I suggest you shy away from all that political stuff, trust your partner, concentrate on your primary area of responsibility, work the angles and call what you see. The sea may part and you will be faced with this again. A good pre-game will let you work through it without a second thought.
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Tue Mar 11, 2003, 12:12pm
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Rich
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Tue Mar 11, 2003, 01:07pm
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Do you call everything you see, even if it happens in your area? My bet is that you don't. So, why would you go the half the length of the floor to make a call that has absolutely nothing to do with your responsibility? No one is advocating that we have to wear blinders. But there have to be limits as to what we see and what we call on the floor. Is it about appearance, as you suggest? Yes, it is to some extent. If we don't look like we know what we're doing, then yes, we lose credibility.
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Tue Mar 11, 2003, 01:45pm
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Tue Mar 11, 2003, 02:02pm
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This is why I agree with Tony.
If you make this call once, you will be expected to make this call again. You might be 100% right on the call, but then the next call you will be expected to make again. This is the point you will get in trouble. I pretty much work with a lot of the same guys, this does not hardly happen to us in a season, let alone in one game. It sounds to me like this official was ball hawking and called something that many of us would not even be looking at. At this position I am looking for contact, not palming violations. The contact fouls are the things that will get you in trouble, not the "judgement" violations. This has nothing to do with ego, this has to do with trusting your partner. Because if we start calling things all over the court, why are their more than one of us out there?
Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
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Tue Mar 11, 2003, 03:51pm
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Just to be clear:
I agree that I would never, not in a million years, call palming from the baseline to the division line. The one my partner called was a pick the ball up in both hands and then a dribble. What I was trying to do with my posts is to show that there is a difference between SEEING what happens outside your primary and CALLING something borderline outside your primary. The posts that caught my eye and the posts I responded to were the ones that said, "What are you doing watching the ball?" C'mon -- all of us SEE things out of our primaries all the time. I know for a fact that when the ball is still in the backcourt and the players are coming down the floor I SEE the ball coming up. I'm officiating my primary, but I occasionally see things that may or may not be violations or fouls. When I work varsity-level-or-higher ball, I expect my partner to cover his half of the floor -- we'd get killed any other way, especially since we still work 2-man. We pregame certain situations where I want his help (like when I'm close to the player inside and watching for contact high, I appreciate help with the feet) and there's a give and take. The original poster may be a ball-hawker, but I didn't get that impression. I did get the impression that the evaluator could've done a better job explaining WHY he shouldn't make that call. Rut, I think, did a great job (except for the ball-hawking bit) and so did some other people. Rich
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Tue Mar 11, 2003, 04:07pm
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The post dealt with a palming call at the division line, that the L made from the baseline. Don't read anything more into the replies than that.
If I get in trouble with a call that I shouldn't have made, it's usually because I was watching an area that I shouldn't have been watching. That was the purpose of my statement. Perhaps that's not true of everyone but I find it's true for me. Don't confuse seeing something across the floor with looking for something where you shouldn't have been looking. I agree that we can't just look in our own primary. That's impossible. And, I don't deny that the evaluator did a poor job with his explanation. But, as Rut said, if you're going to look outside your area, you better get solid, illegal contact, not a cheap violation.
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Tue Mar 11, 2003, 11:55pm
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Other perspective. . .
I call a LOT of 8th grade ball at a very competitive level. Unfortunately, the refs are not as advanced as the players. I get a lot of guys who have been reffing longer than I who believe they own the floor. I see lead officials watching the ball as it comes across half court more times than I care to count. I've had the lead official blow a 'carry' in my area because of a high dribble when I had nothin'. Personally, it pisses me off and makes me wonder why I'm even there.
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Wed Mar 12, 2003, 02:09am
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From 50 feet away from the play, calling anything short of an absolute train wreck is asking for trouble.
__________________
HOMER: Just gimme my gun. CLERK: Hold on, the law requires a five-day waiting period; we've got run a background check... HOMER: Five days???? But I'm mad NOW!!
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Wed Mar 12, 2003, 10:15am
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Thanks Rich I feel better hearing different oppinions here.
My intitial thought was do you make split second decisions while considering all the political ramifications. My whistle would be in my pocket. I know we all work hard to stay off ball but I feel you call what you see and both partners do that it has to better for the game. Thanks guys. That was fun.
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Wed Mar 12, 2003, 10:38am
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The NBA did a study a few years back, and found that - upon review - some ungodly percentage of calls made "out of the primary area" were wrong...Chuck or Drake or someone can probably supply the actual number, but I believe it was 85% or higher...so the moral would be, stay in your primary...
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Wed Mar 12, 2003, 12:59pm
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Just to add something to this thread, short and sweet.
I pride myself in not calling in my partner's primary...unless of course it is a "trainwreck" and "needs to be called"...a dribbling violation, not! Well, as a matter of fact I got "dinged" in last week's State Tournament for doing the very thing I abhor. The evaluator stated that I should not have "bailed out my partner with the foul call"...at the time I did not think I was "stretching" to much to make the call as the "Redsea parted" (I like that mick)  and I made the call. On further review I probably did stretch too much and should have been dinged.There is plenty of "game" in your primary...we don't need to go looking for more stuff in your partner's primary. Besides, it's embarrasing to have a traveling call right in front of you by your partner "miles" away...OK I said it...I have an ego...don't we all?  RD
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Fri Mar 14, 2003, 07:15am
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__________________
~Hodges My two sense! 
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