T or ignore?....

[Scrapper1]

Definitely HTBT, but I can't see how a T here makes the game better. With only 14 seconds, if (and that's a big "if" with so little time left) I can say to the head coach, "Hey Coach, you don't really want him to take a T now, do you?" I might. But a T here might actually make things worse by waking up the Head Coach.

As described, I agree with not giving a T.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Definitely HTBT, but I can't see how a T here makes the game better. With only 14 seconds, if (and that's a big "if" with so little time left) I can say to the head coach, "Hey Coach, you don't really want him to take a T now, do you?" I might. But a T here might actually make things worse by waking up the Head Coach.

As described, I agree with not giving a T.

Just because a T won't make the game better doesn't mean it shouldn't be called, IMO. With 14 seconds left, the only thing that's going to actually make the game better is to let 14 seconds run off the clock; but I think this T needs to be called. Even if it only makes the next game better.

If the behavior is borderline, I can see using the "will it make the game better" criteria. But an AC making the announcement in the OP? That's not borderline for an AC. For an HC? Maybe borderline, but not an AC.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

With 14 seconds left, the only thing that's going to actually make the game better is to let 14 seconds run off the clock;

Bingo. Let it run. If you T the assistant at that point of that game (game is over, coach is taking it like a man and just wants to be done), there's a good chance you'll end up T'ing the head coach, too. Just doesn't seem worth it to me.

[tref]

Had the AC been put in his place when the questioning started during the timeout, perhaps he would've known that he wasn't dealing with summer refs & the EOG sitch may not have occurred. Once they think you're inexperienced they really try you! Had he been dealt with earlier a T with 1 second left is justified. Please tell me that in the OP he didn't walk onto the floor seeking an answer.

Sitting behind a bench last season, I hear an AC telling the staff, "leave those two alone, but we got that one." Speaking about one of the officials who answered every question from anybody on the bench. Boy did they work him all nite!!
That particular official is of the mindset... I'll answer questions from those who ask in a respectful manner.
Coaching staffs know the communication guidelines & when we stray, it can make for a long nite.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

Had the AC been put in his place when the questioning started during the timeout, perhaps he would've known that he wasn't dealing with summer refs & the EOG sitch may not have occurred. Once they think you're inexperienced they really try you! Had he been dealt with earlier a T with 1 second left is justified. Please tell me that in the OP he didn't walk onto the floor seeking an answer.

Sitting behind a bench last season, I hear an AC telling the staff, "leave those two alone, but we got that one." Speaking about one of the officials who answered every question from anybody on the bench. Boy did they work him all nite!!
That particular official is of the mindset... I'll answer questions from those who ask in a respectful manner.
Coaching staffs know the communication guidelines & when we stray, it can make for a long nite.

Must make a difference in how you answer, cause I've never had that problem. Aside from that, I don't answer enough questions that they'll get that impression. One, maybe two. I've never had to go beyond that, but there would quickly come a time when I'd approach the HC and inform him that he will need to be the one communicating with us.

I just don't see it as a big deal during timeouts. Liveball? No way I'm acknowledging an AC. Too many headaches. With a max of 12 TOs (including quarter breaks), I've never had to answer more than 1 or 2 AC questions during a given game.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Bingo. Let it run. If you T the assistant at that point of that game (game is over, coach is taking it like a man and just wants to be done), there's a good chance you'll end up T'ing the head coach, too. Just doesn't seem worth it to me.

My point is, no T is going to make the game better with 14 seconds left. Do you swallow the whistle on all of them for that reason? Of course not. If it's a borderline call, I can see using that as a factor, but if A1 screams, "Aren't you going to call a foul?" with 14 seconds left, aren't you going to call that? If an HC says it, no big deal. If an AC yells it for the gym to hear; I just don't think I can ignore that.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

My point is, no T is going to make the game better with 14 seconds left.

Disagree. Example: Head coach already has been assessed a technical foul, but in the closing seconds is becoming heated and his players are feeding off it (becoming more physical/rough). If you dump him, the game is much more likely to end without further incident.

If, however, you have a head coach who is calmly taking his beating and wants nothing more than to see the clock hit zeros; and then you T an assistant because of a non-vulgar comment, what do you think the chances are that your game will end without further incident? Slim and none. Your T there is likely to make the game worse, in fact, rather than better.

if A1 screams, "Aren't you going to call a foul?" with 14 seconds left, aren't you going to call that?

Possible, but probably not. It's not vulgar, it's not abusive, it's just loud. If he's been a problem all night, and this is the final straw, then I can see it. But if it's just frustration, HTBT, but probably not.

If an AC yells it for the gym to hear; I just don't think I can ignore that.

Each person has to find his/her level for what's acceptable in which circumstances. This is one where I think it's better to ignore. If the comment is "Are you &%#$* kidding me? Where's the @&#$% foul????" then you leave me no choice, regardless of time/score. But for non-vulgar, non-abusive frustration, I'm very likely to ignore it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Possible, but probably not. It's not vulgar, it's not abusive, it's just loud. If he's been a problem all night, and this is the final straw, then I can see it. But if it's just frustration, HTBT, but probably not.

Each person has to find his/her level for what's acceptable in which circumstances. This is one where I think it's better to ignore. If the comment is "Are you &%#$* kidding me? Where's the @&#$% foul????" then you leave me no choice, regardless of time/score. But for non-vulgar, non-abusive frustration, I'm very likely to ignore it.

I have to disagree here if you are only waiting for the curse word. Also abusive does not mean that you had to use certain words. You can be abusive if you are loud and obnoxious. We are mostly talking about school aged kids, not the pros or even college. So if I have a kid yelling at me and saying "Are you going to call a foul?" we will have some problems. For one his behavior might prompt other out of bounds behavior and I also realize that I will have a coach or player again at some point. I am not saying that a T with 14 seconds is the best time, but if that puts a seed in the mind the next time this behavior will not be tolerated when at least I am working their game, that is a win.

I once T'd a coach with about :56 in a game and I knew I had him later in the season. He yelled when the game was quite and tried to make a situation personal. The T made the game better at the time because he did not do that again and most of all the next game I had him, he did not say a single word. Mission accomplished as far as I am concerned. And he made a comment to my partner but not to me in that second game and I did not have to address the same mess I did in the first game.

Peace

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have to disagree here if you are only waiting for the curse word.

You're right. I worded that badly. I'm not only waiting for the curse word. My point was only that using the curse words that way leaves me no choice. There will other times that are abusive, without being vulgar, as you point out. But when it is vulgar and abusive, as in my example, I think (hope) we can agree that a T there is necessary regardless of time/score.

Also abusive does not mean that you had to use certain words. You can be abusive if you are loud and obnoxious.

Agreed. But I think you can also be loud and obnoxious without being abusive. You call a foul and the kid LOUDLY says, "Oh, come on!" Loud, yes. T? Not for me.

We are mostly talking about school aged kids, not the pros or even college. So if I have a kid yelling at me and saying "Are you going to call a foul?" we will have some problems.

Agreed again. (When do we start hugging?) But for me, anyway, I may not use a technical foul to address those problems. In fact, I will almost definitely NOT use a technical foul for a first offense.

I am not saying that a T with 14 seconds is the best time

We're 4-for-4, because I agree yet again.

I once T'd a coach with about :56 in a game and I knew I had him later in the season. He yelled when the game was quite and tried to make a situation personal. The T made the game better at the time because he did not do that again and most of all the next game I had him

Then it's a great technical foul.

[tref]

And this my friends is the bottom line...

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Each person has to find his/her level for what's acceptable in which circumstances.

Got GM Skills?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Just because a T won't make the game better doesn't mean it shouldn't be called, IMO. With 14 seconds left, the only thing that's going to actually make the game better is to let 14 seconds run off the clock; but I think this T needs to be called. Even if it only makes the next game better.

+1

Sometimes, we send an unitended message when we choose to ignore. The message inferred could be that one can get away with statements like the AC made.

I agree with Snaqs. If you T him up today, there will be less liklihood of someone else having to deal with it in the future.

[Brick43]

One of my mentors once gave me this advice. Anytime one coach wants to ask you a question during a TO ask him to wait one second as you want to invite the opposing coach over too, they might want to hear this. More often then not the convo ends right there. It also lets both sides know that neither is going to be working you for calls.

[BLydic]

Originally Posted by Brick43

One of my mentors once gave me this advice. Anytime one coach wants to ask you a question during a TO ask him to wait one second as you want to invite the opposing coach over too, they might want to hear this. More often then not the convo ends right there. It also lets both sides know that neither is going to be working you for calls.

So you never answer questions from a coach?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

With 14 seconds left, the only thing that's going to actually make the game better is to let 14 seconds run off the clock; but I think this T needs to be called. Even if it only makes the next game better.

The following didn't involve an assistant, but sometimes you just have to charge a technical foul, for no other reason than the fact that the coach deserves it:

Ejection ...

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The following didn't involve an assistant, but sometimes you just have to charge a technical foul, for no other reason than the fact that the coach deserves it:

Ejection ...

What a lively discussion!!!! I wonder on how NoFear would have faired.