Originally Posted by CLH (Post 776428)

With all due respect...you state the contact is marginal, but you would call a foul...it's one of the other, if its marginal, no foul, if its a block its not marginal.

(kinda like how something can be new and yet still improved, lol)

Second, two players falling on the ground, does not a foul make. Just because a play is ugly does not mean a foul occurred. "If two players go down, I'm calling a foul" is one of the "personal philosophies" that we have been trying to get away from in the last few years.

regards,
ch

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 776448)

B1 has lgp. A1 jumps and his hip hits B1's shoulder, knocking both to the floor. I'll defer to the guy with the best view of the actual contact and assume the contact was enough for a foul. I'm with MTD, Sr., on this one.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 776723)

Ok, first, I still maintain that B1 has LGP, but after watching it a little more closely, I agree he continued to slide to his right after A1 went airborne. There would have been no contact had he maintained the spot he held when A1 took off.

block, but I think it's close enough to give the official a pass.

Originally Posted by NoFear2020 (Post 776838)

In fact B1 never obtain legal guarding position.
NFHS Rule 4-23-2.
To obtain an initial legal guarding position:
A. The guard must have both feet touching the playing court.
B. The front of the guard’s torso must be facing the opponent.
This can be seen at the start of video.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 776795)

So A1, moving quickly and taking long strides, gathers for a layup at around 25 feet away from the hoop. He gathers with both feet in the air, mid stride, lands on his right foot (at the three point line), takes one more stride with his left (just inside the free throw line) and launches off that left foot for a dunk. B1 got into position as A1 was midstrde between his right and left feet You're calling a block? You're using the wrong rule. The rule you quote (4-41-3) does not state when the defender must get to his spot, its only purpose is to determine whether a shot counts with a defensive foul before the ball is released.

APG's case play and the rule it notes (4-23-5) would be a great place to start.

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams (Post 776807)

What contact there was: - did not disadvantage/impede the defense they were already on the way to the floor. - did not disadvantage/impede the offense, shot was made and offense trying to avoid contact with a falling object causes him to end up with an awkward landing not the contact it self.

Seems to me to be a clear no call LGP, responsibility for contact aside etc.

Originally Posted by NoFear2020 (Post 776847)

YES I think you might have it know:rolleyes:, although the strides in this particular play are a bit unrealistic:confused: but if someone where able to realize such a distance it would be legal:cool:.
Rule 4- 41 is trying to tell you when the shot has begun.
I have not received the NFHS 2011-12 Case Book.:mad:
What is APG?:confused:
NFHS Rule 4-23-5 speaks of guarding a moving opponent without the ball.

Originally Posted by NoFear2020 (Post 776847)

YES I think you might have it know:rolleyes:, although the strides in this particular play are a bit unrealistic:confused: but if someone where able to realize such a distance it would be legal:cool:.
Rule 4- 41 is trying to tell you when the shot has begun.
I have not received the NFHS 2011-12 Case Book.:mad:
What is APG?:confused:
NFHS Rule 4-23-5 speaks of guarding a moving opponent without the ball.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 776843)

At :02 and :11 seconds (the picture is much clearer at :11), you can see B1 facing A1 with both feet on the floor. A1's foot is still on the floor prior to his takeoff. He does have LGP. His problem is, it doesn't allow him to lean his shoulder to the right to force contact.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 776850)

The distances aren't that out of line, frankly. 6 foot strides for a fast moving player isn't unheard of.

Okay, "APG" = "AllPurposeGamer". He posted the case play, even quoted it so you don't need your book. Also, check out case play 10.6.1C, in particular the ruling portion, which states in part:


You're right, I hadn't read the rule book today. It's 4-23-4b


Note that it doesn't say position must be gained before the shooting motion has begun; only that it must be gained before the opponent leaves the floor.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 776849)

APG=short hand for my username.

Rule 4-41 tells us when the try begins, but that has nothing to do with whether a defender got a LGP in time. Knowing when the try begins is only important in determining if continuous motion will apply on a defensive foul.

Also guarding a moving opponent without the ball is the same as guarding a moving opponent with the ball with the only exception being that time and distance apply to a defender trying to gain LGP against the moving defender without the ball.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 776760)

And nowhere does it say the defender has to be in that position before the shooting motion begins.

Originally Posted by NoFear2020 (Post 776857)

try rule 4-41-3 and rule 4-23.

So what are you calling on this play?
No call?
Player Control?
When determining if we have a foul we need to ask, did contact affect the rhythm speed balance or quickness of the opponent?
If so the we should have something.

Originally Posted by NoFear2020 (Post 776852)

By that time (:11) B1 facing A1 with both feet on the floor he is late:eek:, he did not met the requirements under rule 4-23-2:mad:
At :02 B1 is just in the lane, and by the time :11 A1 had already started his shot. BLOCK on B1;)