What if...

[SmokeEater]

Does a deliberate elbow swing always constitute being tossed? Without contact is it not just an Unsporting T and then the following in the face trash is also unsporting T.

I am just throwing that out for more discussion. I do think that should the elbow have any contact then it's a Toss situation.

[Adam]

Whether you toss here doesn't typically depend on whether contact is made. Normally, if you'd toss with contact you'd toss if the elbow misses.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Whether you toss here doesn't typically depend on whether contact is made. Normally, if you'd toss with contact you'd toss if the elbow misses.

Is this opinion or is there rules reference for this train of thought? I would reference rules citation if I had HFHS or NCAA books but unfortunately they have gone to the trash since we switched to FIBA up here.

Just going by memory here, but I thought there was something about excessively swinging the elbows consituted an Unsporting T and Contact was a flagrant foul. *unsure*

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

Is this opinion or is there rules reference for this train of thought? I would reference rules citation if I had HFHS or NCAA books but unfortunately they have gone to the trash since we switched to FIBA up here.

Just going by memory here, but I thought there was something about excessively swinging the elbows consituted an Unsporting T and Contact was a flagrant foul. *unsure*

There's a difference between "excessively swinging" the elbows and "swinging at" another player.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

Is this opinion or is there rules reference for this train of thought? I would reference rules citation if I had HFHS or NCAA books but unfortunately they have gone to the trash since we switched to FIBA up here.

Just going by memory here, but I thought there was something about excessively swinging the elbows consituted an Unsporting T and Contact was a flagrant foul. *unsure*

Excessively swinging the elbows is a violation (although it could be deemed "unsporting.") and making contact is still a judgment call in HS. You might be thinking of the recent NCAA directive for which there is no NFHS equivalent. Even then it's more about contact with the head.

[NCHSAA]

Why "swing" an elbow at someone?
- To hurt someone/make a point deliberately, plain and simple. Doing so in my thinking is a fight. Whether contact is made or not.

Same as shooting at someone and missing. What is the shooter trying to do?? Kill someone!! They just happened to miss.

A common "nudge"?
- Regular T