WHY??????? & How much?

Indy_Ref · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 12, 2003, 09:39pm

Sectional (playoff) game last night. Game was between a 10- to 15-point game all night. Coaches had been just fine for 3 quarters. Coach B of losing team starts to get frustrated with his girls, and starts taking it out on us in the 4th quarter. The straw that broke the camel's back was this: team B hits a basket to cut the lead to 12. Coach B jumps up and yells "Tiger", "Tiger"... I am on bench side, becoming new lead. As I'm running down court past the coach, I think he's calling a timeout! I tell him, "Too late, coach, team A already has ball in possession and throwing it in." He looks at me and says, "I didn't want a timeout." I was thinking, "What?? ok, whatever." Team A comes down and misses shot after a common foul (therefore, partner & I had switched). Team B goes down, hits a basket, and cuts the lead to 10 with about 3 minutes left. I am now on B's baseline, going to become new trail. I hear "Tiger", "Tiger" (and of course I'm thinking TIMEOUT!)...over and over again before team A gets possession to inbound the ball. I blow my whistle to give team B a timeout. Coach says he doesn't want a timeout and was calling a defensive strategy. I tell him, "Sorry, I heard timeout. Now, do you want a 30 or a full?" He continues to complain that he didn't want a TO. I tell him, "That might be so, but I heard 'timeout' and by rule, you're getting one. Sorry." I grant the TO and continue to hear him complain. I take his complaining because I made a slight mistake in blowing my whistle. If this game were a regular season game, I would have probably talked my way out of granting the TO and continued play. Coach B is an idiot the rest of the game. I should have T'ed him up as he ragged on both me & my partner for "being consistently horrible the whole game", but I let it go since he ended up getting blown out by 20.

Anyway, my question to any coaches reading this: WHY do coaches come up with these plays/strategies that can easily be misconstrued as "TIMEOUT"???

My question to officials: I know I probably could have been a bit gentler in handing this situation, but in your opinion, how much crap should I take just because of this situation before I whack the coach?

JRutledge · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 12, 2003, 10:18pm

Do not grant timeouts over verbal alone. Hear, see and recognize, then grant.

Hear the request.

See who is calling it. (make sure it is not an assistant coach or fan)

Recognize the sitaution.

Grant the timeout.

I cannot answer for why coaches do many things. I still do not understand why coaches do not have players call timeouts anymore, but they seem to think we know it is them making the request. Seems this would be more logical of a coaching tactic.

Peace

williebfree · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 12, 2003, 10:39pm

I had a coach that for whatever reason (Obviously NOT thinking about the confusion it would create with an official)
had a strategy that he labeled, "Five-Out"

The first time I heard it I looked and did not see a visual indication that he wanted a TO so I held my whistle.
On the next dead ball situation that I was near the coach I mentioned the problem with "five-out". The coach patiently listened and admitted that he had "not even thought about it that way."

I did hear him call "five-out" several times throughout the game after that conversation.

Oooo boy...

Adam · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 13, 2003, 12:28am

That's weird. I did a jh game just a couple of weeks ago where the coach had play by the same name. I didn't bring it up, but I did have to make several extra looks at his bench to ensure he didn't want a TO.

snaqs

Mark Padgett · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 13, 2003, 12:57am

Just another problem caused by the rule change allowing head coaches to request timeouts from the bench.

RefSouthAlb · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 13, 2003, 11:14am

I agree,

We sometimes have coaches/players yelling "TIME" to indicate one of 2 things:

1: That the player has "time" and is is not under pressure.

2. To look at the shot clock.

I agree we need to hold the whistle until we see the time out signal/ the verbal timew out.

As part of my Captains meeting if I know the gym is going to be loud I ask the captains to let the coaches know that requests for Time Outs should be clear and accompanied by a signal.

Helps in some situations

stripes · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 13, 2003, 11:25am

Why enforce the TO that is not wanted? What purpose does it serve? To get the coach mad at you? To make him think you are incompetent? If he didn't call it, but you thought you heard it, why not just put the ball right back into play?

I think you got crap because you opened the door. IMO, you made the mistake...coach obviously didn't call the TO, you heard wrong. Big deal. Put the ball in play and go--dont give the coach any more ammo than you can to use against you.

MN 3 Sport Ref · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 13, 2003, 12:36pm

You have to discuss this in your pregame. Tell the coach you want to see and hear the timeout request. Otherwize do not grant it unless you are 100% sure what he/she wants. If you do screw up and grant a time-out when a coach was not calling for one (ie calling out defense etc) treat it as an inadvertant whistle and immediately play on. This is YOUR mistake not the coaches. You have already penalized that team (or the other by interrupting the flow of the game) do not rub salt in the wound by forcing a team to take a TO that was not wanted or warrented. This just gives the coach added fuel to question your competence and act like an idiot.

Nonstop · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 13, 2003, 01:05pm

I had the exact opposite problem once.

I was across the court from the bench and the coach was saying something I could not hear, but directed at me. At the same time she was giving, what looked like, a 30-sec timeout signal.

So she got a 30-second timeout.

As I reported the timeout she angrily told me she was saying and showing "call the 'over the back'".

Coaches calling a timeout is convenient for coaches, but it definately causes difficulties for officials. The worst part is that you must take your eyes off the ball to "visually" confirm the request. Then you turn your eyes back to the court and the ball is loose or going the other direction. One coach is angry if you grant the timeout the other coach is angry if you don't. This certainly doesn't help game management

finnref · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 13, 2003, 02:04pm

NOte that the rule regarding calling a time out states the signal may be oral OR visual. Therefore, the official does not need to SEE a sign in order to call the time out. He must see Who is calling it.

IMHO this is a bad rule and causes problems that are being discussed. the main one is finding a moment to take your wyes off the play and see the coach. then the ball is in a different position when you turn back. So, so you blow a delayed whistle when you turn back and the ball is now loose and not in the player's hands when you turned to see the coach. Theoretically the play stops only when the whistle sounds and often I am blowing it when the player does not have control. I do so because I blame myself for not being quick enough. Frequently happens after a scored basket. I find it is something to talk about in the pre game so we are on the same page.

what also confuses and amazes me is the situation where the coach is screaming at the top of his lungs for 20 seconds and the five dummies on the court, that he coaches, do not call a time out.

Solution: Change the rule

NCAAREF · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 13, 2003, 02:25pm

I think you brought the grief on yourself. You thought that "Tiger" was a TO request the first time and the coach indicated he wasn't looking for one. The second time you heard it you should have recognized it as such. Now granted in a heated game., loud gym etc., maybe it still wasn't clear. If you blew the whistle for a TO and again the coach said he wasn't calling for one just put the ball back in play.

RookieDude · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 13, 2003, 06:31pm

The other night I had what I thought was a TO request by the Coach...I had HEARD a request, but I was NO WAY going to take my eyes off the play because the Coach's player was driving to the basket. Well the player continued his drive and made a basket...I looked at the Coach with eyebrows raised, and he just kinda shrugged his shoulders and had a sheepish grin on his face.
I didn't grant the TO...and at this time I don't think he wanted one.

Dude

mnref14 · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 13, 2003, 06:45pm

1st year in Minnesota of 20(now 30) second TO's. Team A player trapped in the front court late in the 1st quarter, A's coach yells 20 seconds; I hit whistle turn and grant TO and look up to the clock to see 19 seconds on the clock. I made him take the TO, which probably saved him a turnover, but he wasn't as understanding as I thought he should be!!!

ace · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 13, 2003, 07:48pm

I tell coaches (even in the rec league) I want to see a T and I wanna hear TIME or even preffibly TIMEOUT if i dont grant it -its probably because u dont have possession, or ur not fomrally requesting a timeout. If i hear something like timeout and i look to the bench and I dont see it im not gunna pay any attention to it. Also - if its important to get the time out tell your players that if they hear u say timeout to make a t and call time out too.

Adam · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 14, 2003, 04:50am

If I'm not in a position to quickly glance at the coach to verify the TO, I don't call it. Even if I'm trail on the opposite side of the court, I won't look away from the players if there's any action at all.
It was stressed when I started officiating (the Iowa Girls allowed it, if I remember correctly, as an adaptation before the Fed made the change) that it was not our responsibility to look away from the court to verify a TO.
The players should hear their coach and request it.