WHY??????? & How much?

[Indy_Ref]

Thanx to all who responded...even though I don't agree with all the responses. To clarify something, I did NOT know the coach was yelling "TIGER" the first time he was up and appearing as though he was calling a TO. I only learned this AFTER I blew my whistle to grant the TO the second time.

Yes, I blew it...and yes, it is a bad rule! BUT, it worked great last night in our 3-person game (as opposed to the above mentioned 2-person game). In 3-person, the trail can always be cognizant of these situations and grant the TO immediately during a run or a press...it's not as easy for the trail in 2-person.

BY RULE, I believe that once you blow your whistle and grant a TO to a coach (correctly or erroneously), it CANNOT be revoked!! I also believe you CAN talk your way out of this situation...as I've done in the past...but since this was a playoff game with IHSAA personnel in the stands evaluating my performance, I felt I needed to stick to my guns and grant the TO. I was WRONG common-sensibly...but RIGHT by the letter of the law.

I hate that!!

[MN 3 Sport Ref]

I'll venture my interpretation to as why you can escape penalizing a team a timeout when the official MAKES AN ERROR and blows the ball dead thinking the coach wanted a timeout. Again a good pregame does wonders in preventing this from happening. (FED references). This is assuming a timeout is able to be called by that team. Erroneously granteing a requested TO when the wrong team has the ball or there is no team control is a whole different story.

5.8.3 A time out occurs when an official grants a coaches oral and/or visual request for a time-out.

For this to be true the coach must actually be requesting a TO which in our case he/she is NOT DOING.

CASE 2.11.10C: ACCIDENTAL WHISTLE. An official erroneously sounds his/her whistle while team/player A is in control. RULING: A1 ball for a spot throw-in nearest where the ball was when the whistle occurred.

Becasue the coach is not requesting a time-out is this not an accidental/inadvertqant whistle.

CASE 5.8.3.E: An official erroneously grants a timeout when a team cannot have one. RULING: Team B is entitled to use the timeout as it was granted. The timeout once granted cannot be revoked.

I think this is where we get confused thinking we must give the TO once we grant it. However is this case not in place to ensure that we grant the TO when the COACH IS ACTUALLY REQUESTING ONE when they have no TO's left (TECH)

-or-

if we erroneously grant a TO when there is no player/team control or the other team has control. This as to penalize the coach requesting the TO that he cannot have (by charging him w/ one) even though we as officials made an error (induced by the coach and our lack of concentration) and giving the ball back to the team in poss. or going to the arrow.

This and the above case deal w/ a coach who is actually requesting a TO not a sitch where we THINK the coach is requesting a TO. I believe the inadvertant whistle covers that and if we erroneously blow the whistle for a "phantom" TO we should be allowed to treat it as inadvertant and play-on immediately with the team (who we thought requested a TO) having a spot throwin at POI.

[Hawks Coach]

MN
I have said the same thing on other similar threads, but not backed it nearly as well as you have done. The TO granted refers to granting a request - no request, you have assigned a TO to the coach. The book does not clearly address this issue, but I have always believed it should be an inadvertent whistle. Teams should not be forced to have a TO due to referee error.

Now if you are sure that the team really requested it and is now trying to back out for some reason, that is a different story. In this latter situation you granted a request, and they want to un-request - can't do it. Also, the coach signalling T that is misunderstood as a TO request - that is a TO as well. They can't use the universal TO sign and then back out, regardless of what they thought they were doing.

[Indy_Ref]

MN, you make good points, but I reserve the right to my own opinion, right or wrong. The coach was losing by 10 at the end of the game, and his team just hit a basket. It would be natural for him to want a TO to stop the clock. Before the opposing team picked up the ball and got out-of-bounds to throw the ball in play, I thought I heard "TIMEOUT" over and over again. Nineteen times out of twenty this IS the case. It just so happens this time that coach was yelling "TIGER", to which my partner was also confused if he wanted a TO or not, and I blew my whistle to grant him his TO.

Personally, I would try the "inadvertant whistle" if it was not a playoff/tournament game.

MN, I do not believe either of your casebook references apply here. In 2.10.11, no player or team had control since a basket had been made and the ball was bouncing under the basket, and as for 5.8.3, he HAD TO's left.

Moral of the story? Please, coaches, use something besides a "T" word, that is followed by a long "I", and that is 2 syllables, to call your plays!...especially at the end of the game!!

[Edited by Indy_Ref on Feb 15th, 2003 at 09:52 AM]