The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 09, 2003, 10:55am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1
I am a young official in my 3rd year, and was recently chastised for having a neat, trimmed goatee. I was told that unless I shaved clean or went to just a moustache, I would not be advanced to the upper levels, despite above average reviews/scores by our senior officials.

I have searched various publications, ethics codes, etc., and have not been able to find any written rule regarding facial hair on officials. Obviously, I would never go out there with a shaggy beard and unkempt hair, but I feel this "unwritten" rule will hamper my development.

Does anyone have any advice or information that may be of assistance??

Thanks
__________________
MJS
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 09, 2003, 11:06am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Houghton, U.P., Michigan
Posts: 9,953
Quote:
Originally posted by msheleheda
I am a young official in my 3rd year, and was recently chastised for having a neat, trimmed goatee. I was told that unless I shaved clean or went to just a moustache, I would not be advanced to the upper levels, despite above average reviews/scores by our senior officials.

I have searched various publications, ethics codes, etc., and have not been able to find any written rule regarding facial hair on officials. Obviously, I would never go out there with a shaggy beard and unkempt hair, but I feel this "unwritten" rule will hamper my development.

Does anyone have any advice or information that may be of assistance??

Thanks
Yes. this seems to be an unwritten philosophy.
But, it remains your choice.
...Another game within the game.
mick
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 09, 2003, 11:13am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 521
Quote:
Originally posted by msheleheda
I am a young official in my 3rd year, and was recently chastised for having a neat, trimmed goatee.
Thanks
By whom? It is the people assigning who count.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 09, 2003, 11:23am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,105
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
As Mick said, it's your choice. Decide what your priorities are and that will give you your answer. What's more important to you? Advancing in officiating, or having a goatee? Once you answer that question, you shouldn't have any reservations about either keeping or shaving the goatee, as the case may be. For me, it was an easy choice. I shaved.

Quote:
Originally posted by msheleheda
I would never go out there with a shaggy beard and unkempt hair, but I feel this "unwritten" rule will hamper my development.
How, exactly? As long as the rule is made clear to you, you have the choice to comply or not. If you comply, then it doesn't hamper you. If you don't comply, then it's the goatee that will hamper your advancement.

Just my two cents. As I said earlier, for me it was a no-brainer.

Chuck
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 09, 2003, 12:47pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 130
Wink Long hair!!!!

Seen a Ref at a Varsity game (African American) with long hair in a pony tail.




Whats your thoughts on that????
__________________
Woodee
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 09, 2003, 12:57pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,729
Hmmmm,

Chuck said it best, "what is most important to you?"

Watch the telly and notice how the top notch "TV Guys"
(officials) have their hair and facial hair, it pretty much answers the question.

Edit:

Sorry Woodee,I meant to answer your question:

I do not have any feeling for the issue you describe. I have never worked in an association that would allow a "male" official to work with hair as you described.

[Edited by Tim C on Feb 9th, 2003 at 12:00 PM]
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 09, 2003, 02:10pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Re: Long hair!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by Woodee
Seen a Ref at a Varsity game (African American) with long hair in a pony tail.




Whats your thoughts on that????
My first thought is that the local association wants to increase their African-American numbers, and they're willing to relax the appearance standards to do it. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I'm unfornately left wondering if they'd let a white guy wear his hair the same way. But, then again, I'm perhaps a bit overly cynical.

snaqs
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 09, 2003, 04:08pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,472
Lightbulb Re: Re: Long hair!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by Snaqwells
Quote:
Originally posted by Woodee
Seen a Ref at a Varsity game (African American) with long hair in a pony tail.




Whats your thoughts on that????
My first thought is that the local association wants to increase their African-American numbers, and they're willing to relax the appearance standards to do it. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I'm unfornately left wondering if they'd let a white guy wear his hair the same way. But, then again, I'm perhaps a bit overly cynical.

snaqs
I belong to one association that is 99% African-American, we do not have officials working with long hair. Not unless you are female. Now several individuals have facial hair, including myself, but it is cleanly shaven and taken care of. So trying to increase the numbers of African-Americans should have nothing to do with looking professional. As a matter of fact, I do not know many African-Americans with long hair period. Most African-Americans like to keep their hair short, not long.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 09, 2003, 04:10pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 400
Smile Fortunately..

I have not had to worry about this problem, yet! (facial hair).
Other unwrittens -- eye wear, long hair, pants with belts.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 09, 2003, 04:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 1,628
Cool

Quote:
Originally posted by msheleheda
I have searched various publications, ethics codes, etc., and have not been able to find any written rule regarding facial hair on officials.
Unfair, perhaps. But that's the way it is. The community of bball officials want appearance within a certain set of parameters.

Agree with Chuck...it's where your priorities lie. Officials have had to make all kinds of adjustments to advance within the ranks. Life isn't always fair.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 09, 2003, 07:31pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,048
Quote:
Originally posted by msheleheda
I am a young official in my 3rd year, and was recently chastised for having a neat, trimmed goatee. I was told that unless I shaved clean or went to just a moustache, I would not be advanced to the upper levels, despite above average reviews/scores by our senior officials.

I have searched various publications, ethics codes, etc., and have not been able to find any written rule regarding facial hair on officials. Obviously, I would never go out there with a shaggy beard and unkempt hair, but I feel this "unwritten" rule will hamper my development.

Does anyone have any advice or information that may be of assistance??

Thanks

In my humble opinion, the person that made the comments about your goatee has too much time on his hands and should take up a hobby like, knitting or origami.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 09, 2003, 08:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 1,628
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
In my humble opinion, the person that made the comments about your goatee has too much time on his hands and should take up a hobby like, knitting or origami. [/B]
MTD brings up a good point the rest of us missed.

If this was the most significant point the evaluator had to bring up, you're doing pretty well, I'd say.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 09, 2003, 08:15pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 16
No facial hair but if you have a beer belly that kes you look like your 9 months pregnant, that's ok I guess. Seen lot's of them.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 09, 2003, 08:25pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally posted by canuckrefguy
MTD brings up a good point the rest of us missed.

If this was the most significant point the evaluator had to bring up, you're doing pretty well, I'd say. [/B]
Actually, I agree with this, too. It seems to me that you should look at it as an encouraging sign. If that was what your evaluator pointed to, then he must think you're ready for bigger and better things and the only thing holding you back will be the goatee.
Like the others said, though, it would be your choice. How important is the facial hair to you in comparison with moving up in the ranks.

snaqwells
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 09, 2003, 08:30pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Re: Re: Re: Long hair!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge

I belong to one association that is 99% African-American, we do not have officials working with long hair. Not unless you are female. Now several individuals have facial hair, including myself, but it is cleanly shaven and taken care of. So trying to increase the numbers of African-Americans should have nothing to do with looking professional. As a matter of fact, I do not know many African-Americans with long hair period. Most African-Americans like to keep their hair short, not long.

Peace [/B]
I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I was making an assumption based on my own experience. I work in a mid-sized metro area with relatively few African-Americans. I was indicating that perhaps there was a desire to bring more A-A refs into the fold, and thus a willingness to relax some appearance standards that don't really reflect an official's abilities.
I don't like the idea of doing it, but I'd have a hard time condemning an association for allowing it without knowing more than was given.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:43am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1