Ask coach if he wants a time-out on a made basket?

[Adam]

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Use of the football T signal, not a good idea. There is a recent thread either here or on the other board where a disgruntled coach want a technical on an opposing player and got a TO instead.
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Coach actually got a T 'cause he didn't have any TO's left. I think it's funny, since he shouldn't have been trying to officiate anyway.

snaqs

[fletch_irwin_m]

I am not sure if i missed this or not in the discussion. I have had on about 1/2 dozen occasions a player or coach come up to me and request a TO if a FT is made and I grant it. I NEVER ask the coach if he wants a TO however.

[Hawks Coach]

When I first read the subject of this thread, I wrongly assumed that someone would be complaining about a partner who did this. I am completely amazed that any ref would ask a coach in advance if they will want a timeout. It is wrong, totally wrong IMO. You are providing aid to that coach, period. If you know it is a situation where a smart coach might want a TO on a made basket, then you should look for it - any good ref would do so. You should not suggest this strategy to the coach, nor should you grant a TO that is not requested.

I have seen it already discussed on this board where the coach tries to request the TO before the made basket (e.g., "on a make, I want the TO ref"). Even when it comes from the coach, you cannot give a TO based on advance notification - it must be requested at the time. It is fine to put you on notice so you know to look for it, in case you did not already. But it cannot be granted unless it is specifically requested at the time the coach wants it.

It is especially obvious that this action is wrong, because Jeremy suggests he can do it without anybody hearing. If it is the right thing to do, why would you care? If you have to do it without others hearing it, you know that if someone did hear, they would complain, and you would have no way to defend your action.

This is amazing one-sided assistance which I cannot fathom providing to either team in a competition. Any of you that are doing it, I hope you cease immediately and go to a process of anticipating and looking for the TO call.

[Edited by Hawks Coach on Feb 10th, 2003 at 03:17 PM]

[Jeremy Hohn]

Thanks for your input coach, I did NOT use that technique in my college game tonight, and the coach didn't get his time-out granted because the crew didn't see him request it. If that were you, how would you feel? BUT it is not our duty as officials to try and "help out" one side or the other, and I will cease and disist on the practice. I DID feel bad for the coach. 2 point loss.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Jeremy Hohn
Thanks for your input coach, I did NOT use that technique in my college game tonight, and the coach didn't get his time-out granted because the crew didn't see him request it. If that were you, how would you feel?

Jeremy, I'm honestly confused. You can remember to ask a coach if he wants a TO in such a situation but you can't remember to take a glance in his direction when you know he's in a position where he might want one? That doesn't make sense to me. Help me out.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
My first fist guy last night in a girls varsity game. Never saw it before, either, but I heard his oral request just the same.

The best signal for a coach is a T (or hands on the shoulders if they want a 30). Fist?

Rich

Don't know if this is why, but NCAA women use a closed fist to signal that it is time for a media timeout.

Carried over to your partner??

[Adam]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach

I have seen it already discussed on this board where the coach tries to request the TO before the made basket (e.g., "on a make, I want the TO ref"). Even when it comes from the coach, you cannot give a TO based on advance notification - it must be requested at the time. It is fine to put you on notice so you know to look for it, in case you did not already. But it cannot be granted unless it is specifically requested at the time the coach wants it.
[Edited by Hawks Coach on Feb 10th, 2003 at 03:17 PM]

Where is that written, coach? I have to admit, I was only asked to do that once this year, and the free throw was not made, so the TO was not granted. I was wondering about doing it, but have to ask why I "cannot" give him the TO in that situation.

snaqwells

[Hawks Coach]

If they say it immediately prior to a FT, I would have less problem with it than if they said it prior to an inbounds play and a made basket in the flow of play. But either way, by rule, you can only grant a TO when it is appropriately requested. Nothing in the rule says you can "advance request" a TO in anticipation of the situation arising where you will actually be allowed to have the TO.

The rule is request a TO, and if you are authorized to have a TO granted at the time of the request, your request should be granted.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Snaqwells

Where is that written, coach? I have to admit, I was only asked to do that once this year, and the free throw was not made, so the TO was not granted. I was wondering about doing it, but have to ask why I "cannot" give him the TO in that situation.

As posted before in this thread, NFHS rule 5-8-3 states that you grant a TO only for an oral or visual request.If you don't see or hear a request,there's no request to grant.

[hawkk]

Ya know, it's not hard for a coach to do this right and get the ref to call the TO quickly:

Coach: "Ref, I want a TO if we make the basket."
Ref: "Thx for the heads-up, but you gotta ask for it once he makes it."

Basket made, ref knows what's happening, turns to look at coach, who signals for TO.

[Rich]

Picking nits.

I appreciate the coach who gets my attention before the second of two and signals to me he wants a timeout if the FT is good.

That's good enough for me. He's entitled to a timeout in that situation, and he's freed me to officiate the rebound. He's also gained no advantage not intended by the rules.

Rich

[Hawks Coach]

Rich
What rebound are you watching? The FT is good. Any action afterward before the ball is made live is incidental. If he tells you he wants a TO, he can call it as the ball goes through the net. He also can tell all his players to simultaneously call TO when the ball goes through the net, so you can't possibly miss it, even if you are in a tunnel vision mode and seeing only the players under the basket.

Like I said, I understand a little bit how you can justify it better on a made FT. But in the end, coach can easily have players request a TO that you can see and recognize after the FT. He should coach his players to call that TO, call it himself as well, and not count on the ref.

One thing also to consider with respect to deviating, even slightly, from the rules. Others will follow the letter of the law, and the coach who was trained by you will expect the TO to be automatically granted. If he doesn't get the TO because his refs in the next game follow the letter of the rule, he will now be upset when he doesn't get an automatic TO.

It's best to keep to the rules and teach the coaches the right way to do it.

[Rich]

That's your opinion, and I just happen to disagree with it.

I don't know of a single official in my area that wouldn't grant this time out.

To me, there are bigger fish to fry, like why I can't get my picture taken with any future NBA players

Rich

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Coach are you going to want a time-out if this shot is good?

Yes.

OKAY. I WILL BE WATCHING FOR YOUR SIGNAL.

[hawkk]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Coach are you going to want a time-out if this shot is good?

Yes.

OKAY. I WILL BE WATCHING FOR YOUR SIGNAL.

Then what's the point? Just watch for the signal. Seems the only reason to have the above dialogue is to suggest to the coach that he should want a TO -- which is, in MHO, a really, really bad idea.