Sideline: Forced OOB

[Sven]

I'm confident we've had this discussion before, but I can't locate the thread.

Girls Middle School Game. A1 dribbling fast along sideline in backcourt. B1 establishes legal guarding position near the division line. As A1 dribbles past, there is slight contact and a bump. B1 is not displaced. The contact forces A1 OOB for two to three steps; ball continues to front court along sideline inbounds. A1 comes back inbounds and continues dribble.

B1 was not located directly on the sideline; there was perhaps a foot of space between B1 and the boundary. It was through this gap that A1 dribbled when the contact occurred.

I got nothin'; fans want somethin'. What do you have?

Reference Case Book if you can. Thanks.

Sven

[firedoc]

I don't have my rule book or case book with me at work, but I agree with you...No Call!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Sven
I'm confident we've had this discussion before, but I can't locate the thread.

Girls Middle School Game. A1 dribbling fast along sideline in backcourt. B1 establishes legal guarding position near the division line. As A1 dribbles past, there is slight contact and a bump. B1 is not displaced. The contact forces A1 OOB for two to three steps; ball continues to front court along sideline inbounds. A1 comes back inbounds and continues dribble.

B1 was not located directly on the sideline; there was perhaps a foot of space between B1 and the boundary. It was through this gap that A1 dribbled when the contact occurred.

I got nothin'; fans want somethin'. What do you have?

Reference Case Book if you can. Thanks.

Sven

In the both plays, you have two choices: 1) player control foul on A1 or 2) A1 has caused the ball to go out-of-bounds and in either case Team B will get the ball for a throw-in at the spot of the player control foul by A1 or the spot where A1 caused the ball to go out-of-bounds. I would be inclined to go with the out-of-bounds call myself in both of these plays.

I just got home from officiating and plead to being too tired and too lazy to look up the appropriate rules references and casebook plays/approved rulings. But the rules and casebook/apporved rulings for these two plays would be the same under NFHS, NCAA Mens'/Womens', and FIBA rules. But I am sure somebody will post them tonight or tomorrow.

[Sven]

I need to clarify. The contact was, in my judgment, too slight to merit a player control foul. Further, while OOB,
A1 did not appear to contact the ball. Interrupted dribble, perhaps?

It looked odd, but I think it was a legal play.

Sven

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Sven
I need to clarify. The contact was, in my judgment, too slight to merit a player control foul. Further, while OOB,
A1 did not appear to contact the ball. Interrupted dribble, perhaps?

It looked odd, but I think it was a legal play.

Sven

Lets forget about the contact between the two players and just concern ourselves with A1 dribbling the ball. When A1 is dribbling the ball, A1 (by definition) is in player control of the ball. Therefore, if any part of A1 touches out-of-bounds while dribbling the ball, A1 has caused the ball to go out-of-bounds. A1 does not have to be in contact with the ball when he/she touches out-of-bounds.

[firedoc]

I believe that Sven is saying that the dribbler lost control of the ball, which stayed inbounds, and the player went out of bounds (unintentionally). He then returned onto the court a few steps later and regained possession of the ball. If this is indeed what he is describing, then I still have no call.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Sven
I need to clarify. The contact was, in my judgment, too slight to merit a player control foul. Further, while OOB,
A1 did not appear to contact the ball. Interrupted dribble, perhaps?

It looked odd, but I think it was a legal play.

Sven

Yup,sounds like the dribbler lost control of the ball.If he can't immediately dribble after he lost control,in the official's judgement,he can legally go OOB,and then come back in bounds to get the loose ball.Casebook plays 7.1.1SitA&B are close enough.

[RecRef]

Originally posted by Sven
I'm confident we've had this discussion before, but I can't locate the thread.

A1 dribbling fast along sideline in backcourt. B1 establishes legal guarding position near the division line.
B1 was not located directly on the sideline; there was perhaps a foot of space between B1 and the boundary. It was through this gap that A1 dribbled when the contact occurred.

I got nothin'; fans want somethin'. What do you have?

Sven

You have a PC foul - (This BTW is one of my pet peeves when it is not called as a good defensive play is canceled by the referee.)

Rule book 10.6.2 . . . A dribbler shall not charge into nor contact an opponent in his/her path nor attempt to dribble between two opponents or between an opponent and a boundary, unless the space is such as to provide a reasonable chance for him or her to go through without contact.

One foot is not a reasonable chance disiance. Three feet is generally considered the minimum distance and it comes from Case book

10.6.2 SITUATION C: During congested play in the free-throw semicircle, B1 and B2 are less than 3 feet apart when dribbler A1 fakes to one side and then causes contact in attempting to dribble between them. Ruling: Unless one of the defensive players is faked out of position to permit adequate space for the dribbler to go between without making contact, it is a player-control foul on A1. (4-7-2)

[Rich]

Or it's nothing.

Does the contact put the defender at a disadvantage?

Most of the time contact like this is rightfully called an out-of-bounds violation as the player with the ball ends up out of bounds.

Rich

[BktBallRef]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RecRef
[B]You have a PC foul - (This BTW is one of my pet peeves when it is not called as a good defensive play is canceled by the referee.)

How is it a player control foul when the contact was ever so slight and in the mind of the official, not a foul?

Originally posted by Sven
I need to clarify. The contact was, in my judgment, too slight to merit a player control foul.

[canuckrefguy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BktBallRef
How is it a player control foul when the contact was ever so slight and in the mind of the official, not a foul?

Agree. Play is legal. Lucky break for dribbler. These things happen.

[NICK]

DID A1 GAIN AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE WHEN DRIBBLING BY GOING OOB THEN COMING IN TO FINISH HER DRIBBLE? WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF PLAYER WAS IN THE PAINT AND AFTER 2.9 SECONDS WENT OOB THEN COME BACK IN TO THE PAINT AGAIN TO GAIN ANOTHER 2.9 SECONDS AND NOT GET A 3S CALL?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by NICK
DID A1 GAIN AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE WHEN DRIBBLING BY GOING OOB THEN COMING IN TO FINISH HER DRIBBLE? WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF PLAYER WAS IN THE PAINT AND AFTER 2.9 SECONDS WENT OOB THEN COME BACK IN TO THE PAINT AGAIN TO GAIN ANOTHER 2.9 SECONDS AND NOT GET A 3S CALL?

Nick --

Interesting points! PLEASE DON"T YELL... I mean, please don't yell.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by NICK
DID A1 GAIN AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE WHEN DRIBBLING BY GOING OOB THEN COMING IN TO FINISH HER DRIBBLE? WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF PLAYER WAS IN THE PAINT AND AFTER 2.9 SECONDS WENT OOB THEN COME BACK IN TO THE PAINT AGAIN TO GAIN ANOTHER 2.9 SECONDS AND NOT GET A 3S CALL?

Nick,please don't yell.That's what using all-capital-letters mean.

The original post said that the dribbler was forced out of bounds.That means that he didn't go out of bounds to gain an unfair advantage.That's also why there is no call in this particular case.The other play that you talked about is covered exactly in the rules.You don't give the player another 2.9 seconds in the lane.You do give them a technical foul.Or warn.

[NICK]

sorry bout the caps, use it all the time even at work, saves looking for it