Delay or 5 seconds

[Refsmitty]

GVB scrimmage - After made basket - scored upon team begins to dribble the ball upcourt without inbounding it first.

In a real game what is the correct call?

[Adam]

Violation as soon as it's clear they start moving up the court w/o taking it OOB for the throw in.

[twocentsworth]

it is simply a delay of game warning or violation....it cannot be an endline violation because the player did not violate the endline rules (in fact, she did not even make any attempt to get out of bounds/cross the endline to begin the throw-in)...

had that happen this past season and asked a big-time D1/Final Four official about it.....

[Adam]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

it is simply a delay of game warning or violation....it cannot be an endline violation because the player did not violate the endline rules (in fact, she did not even make any attempt to get out of bounds/cross the endline to begin the throw-in)...

had that happen this past season and asked a big-time D1/Final Four official about it.....

And he was wrong both on what it is and what it isn't. I believe this is in the case plays.

It's a violation as soon as it's clear they're not taking the ball OOB.

And which of the four DOG situations does this violate?

[hoopguy]

I'm with Snaq's not the DI final four guy.

It is a case play
9.2.2 situation c

[APG]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

it is simply a delay of game warning or violation....it cannot be an endline violation because the player did not violate the endline rules (in fact, she did not even make any attempt to get out of bounds/cross the endline to begin the throw-in)...

had that happen this past season and asked a big-time D1/Final Four official about it.....

There's an NFHS case book play that covers this exactly...it's a violation as soon as it's obvious the team isn't going to throw the ball in. This is not a delay of game warning.

[tref]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

There's an NFHS case book play that covers this exactly...it's a violation as soon as it's obvious the team isn't going to throw the ball in. This is not a delay of game warning.

NCAA ruling?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

NCAA ruling?

Probably depends on whether or not you're a big time Final 4 official.

[tref]

It seems as though the more trusted an official is, the more you can DoWhatYaLike... unfortunately.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

It seems as though the more trusted an official is, the more you can DoWhatYaLike... unfortunately.

My guess, with this play, is that the question was posed in a way that was unclear.

If he really said it was a DOG warning, I can't imagine he understood what was being asked.

Or, we have a classic game of telephone spiced with anonymous name dropping.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tref

It seems as though the more trusted an official is, the more you can DoWhatYaLike... unfortunately.

1) the D1 guy might not do any FED

2) I don't think it's specifically covered by an AR in NCAA (but I could be wrong, and I don't have my books handy)

3) When it was first postited here (or McGriff's), lots of support for "immediate violation", "bring them back and make them do it over", "wait 5 seconds and then a violation" and maybe other answers.

So, he could have been giving an honest answer and not a "DoWhatYouLike" answer.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by hoopguy

It is a case play 9.2.2 situation c

9.2.2 SITUATION C: A1 scores a basket. After the ball goes through the net, B1
grabs it and makes a move toward the end line as though preparing to make a
throw-in. However, B1 never legally steps out of bounds, both feet remain
inbounds. B1 immediately passes the ball up the court to a fast-breaking teammate,
who scores a basket. RULING: Cancel Team B's goal, throw-in violation on
B1. The ball was at B1's disposal after the made basket to make a throw-in. B1
must be out of bounds to make a legal throw-in. (7-4-3; 7-5-7)

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

9.2.2 SITUATION C: A1 scores a basket. After the ball goes through the net, B1
grabs it and makes a move toward the end line as though preparing to make a
throw-in. However, B1 never legally steps out of bounds, both feet remain
inbounds. B1 immediately passes the ball up the court to a fast-breaking teammate,
who scores a basket. RULING: Cancel Team B's goal, throw-in violation on
B1. The ball was at B1's disposal after the made basket to make a throw-in. B1
must be out of bounds to make a legal throw-in. (7-4-3; 7-5-7)

Every so often, we have a thread about this. I think the easiest way to think of it, based on the case above, is to realize that once the ball is at the disposal of team B, they have five seconds to make a legal throw-in. If, during that five seconds they make an illegal throw-in such as going OOB with the ball but step on the court while making the throw-in, we all know to call the violation. What the case is saying is that making the initial pass which has the characteristics of a throw-in pass (starts the team up the court, etc.) without stepping OOB at all first, is the same call as if B1 did step OOB but stepped on the court while making the OOB pass, that is, an illegal throw-in pass even though he never stepped OOB. When you think of it that way, it becomes a much more automatic call to make.