Why are we reluctant to call Ts?

[Kelvin green]

I'll pipe in...

I know stripes....I probably know the other official.
Stripes would never leave a partner intentionally hanging, and would intervene if necessary.
Now to be specific... I think that in our association it is viewed as somehow inherently evil or a breakdown on our fault if we call a T.
How many guys had the guts to call a T on our former Bingham coach?
I called a T on a coach for yelling at me a couple of yeras back... There was a hard foul in the paint. He cam off the bench yelling " You have to call something" three or four times.. after he got passed me then he yelled, I have a player hurt. He thought he could scream and yell to the paint and then get away with it by yelling his kid was down. I called the T.. After the kid was going to the bench my partner tells this guy that he has a T, he will be sitting the rest of the game. He yells "That's crap!" and pushes my partner ( shades of Jerry Sloan). Of course my partner whacks him and we send him packing. After the game the two varsity guys come down and say we could have handled it better and both of them said and they were dead serious that they had not called a T in 15 years of officiating.

I think officials get blamed for T's instead of looking at it a just another foul. We call blocks and charges, when a player breaks the rule. Yet it is somehow our fault when a coach gets a T.

I had a game couple of weeks ago. I called a T and he yelled back it's about time ( You think he wanted one?) I did his game about 4 weeks later and he was running around near the dressing room and he said I'll be better tonight, and he told me he wanted the T at the time to fire up his kids and if that did not work then he did not have to worry much about hard coaching that game cause he was sitting (his team was down 20-4 in the first four minutes of the game)

I also think that officials in general dont like issuing penalties that are two shots and the ball.... I'd like to go to the NBA rule. 1 shot point of interruption. Coach you got my attention and half way out the door! but doesn't break the flow of the game....

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Kelvin green
I think officials get blamed for T's instead of looking at it a just another foul. We call blocks and charges, when a player breaks the rule. Yet it is somehow our fault when a coach gets a T.

Well said, Kelvin. I agree.

I'd like to go to the NBA rule. 1 shot point of interruption. Coach you got my attention and half way out the door! but doesn't break the flow of the game....

One shot or two (NBA or NCAA), I don't care. But I too would like to see HS go to the point of interruption.

Where you been, Kelvin? Must be busy out there

Chuck

[Grant]

I am from Edmonton Alberta and work at the College level. In this association the official would not move very far or work many games if he had not given the T. The evaluator and his partners would have asked one question. Where is your line of tolerance and he better of had a good answer. If the game is not close and he didn't take care of business earlier he absolutely had to do it then. You are right he lost all credibility and put a target on his back for the rest of the year.

[CLAY]

How much longer are we going to put up with the crap from the coach? What is the job of the coach? Why do we let the coach, coach and officiate? Do we as officials coach the players when we are on the court? I 've got a varsity game tonight and I know the coach for the home team is a screamer. I will take a good *** chewing from any coach if I was out of position something that is my fault.

In Illinois the head coach is the one that rates us after each game. Talk about the fox in charge of the hen house.
It's sort of neat to read your rating from the losing coach, then read the one from the winning coach. It's like night and day.

I will give a coach one warning,not to be a as_hole but to make sure he understands his role. I think if you keep the coach in check the fans will follow.

[DrakeM]

Stripes,

You even need to ASK, if I would let a Coach stand a mid-court screaming at me? Puhleeeessseee!

You know better than anyone on this board, (with the exception of Kelvin) my reputation for the quick "T".
(undeserved IMHO) I just take care of business.
However, several events that transpired over the summer, and teaching from officials that I respect very much, has given me a little bit of a new insight. As a result, I feel that I have been slower to "T", than at any time since I've been reffing.

My philosophy is, "you take care of your business, and I'll take care of mine". If you turn your back on a coach or player and then they act inappropriately, then it becomes
"my business."

I hate it when a partner comes in and needs to be the "hero"
If i'm handling it, unless we go to blows, stay out!

I know you were being a good partner. I think you showed good restraint, and respect for your partner in holding your whistle once he told you that he would handle it.
Like I said earlier, The problem in my eyes is not the last :30, it was the rest of the game when the Coach was not dealt with.
I think sometimes as "veteran" officals, we need to be aware of how our partner is being treated even though the coach/player may not be attacking us.
If you feel that your partner is being misstreated and he's doing nothing about it, step up and "whack".

By the way Kelvin, I have also been privy to the "I haven't called a "T" in -- years officiating" speech.
Bunch of crap if you ask me.
If officials don't use the means given, to control situations, then they are missing out. IMO.

[AK ref SE]

In the Adult Rec league I had the nickname at the beginning of the year MR. T. I made my mark in the sand, and stuck by it. After couple weeks never had a problem in the games I worked.
HS level my mark in the sand is a little different. But, I have a certain amount that I am going to take. I have maybe 2 T's a year on coaches. Many officials in my area have not had 2 T's in ten years. My area the coaches pick who will do the conference tourney. I have never gone! Maybe because I am not as good of an official as the others, maybe because I am not afraid to say enough is enough. Sure I would love to do a tourney. But, if not I have more important things in life My family.

AK ref SE

[stripes]

Originally posted by DrakeM
Stripes,

You even need to ASK, if I would let a Coach stand a mid-court screaming at me? Puhleeeessseee!

You know better than anyone on this board, (with the exception of Kelvin) my reputation for the quick "T".
(undeserved IMHO) I just take care of business.
However, several events that transpired over the summer, and teaching from officials that I respect very much, has given me a little bit of a new insight. As a result, I feel that I have been slower to "T", than at any time since I've been reffing.

My philosophy is, "you take care of your business, and I'll take care of mine". If you turn your back on a coach or player and then they act inappropriately, then it becomes
"my business."

I hate it when a partner comes in and needs to be the "hero"
If i'm handling it, unless we go to blows, stay out!

I know you were being a good partner. I think you showed good restraint, and respect for your partner in holding your whistle once he told you that he would handle it.
Like I said earlier, The problem in my eyes is not the last :30, it was the rest of the game when the Coach was not dealt with.
I think sometimes as "veteran" officals, we need to be aware of how our partner is being treated even though the coach/player may not be attacking us.
If you feel that your partner is being misstreated and he's doing nothing about it, step up and "whack".

By the way Kelvin, I have also been privy to the "I haven't called a "T" in -- years officiating" speech.
Bunch of crap if you ask me.
If officials don't use the means given, to control situations, then they are missing out. IMO.

I figured that I misunderstood you, because I didn't think there was a snowball's chance in He11 that you would let that go on.

Philospohically, I am on the same page with you. My partner, who you and Kelvin know, was, IMO, doing a good job of dealing with the coach. He didn't deserve a T until the last 30 sec. That was the first offense of any kind that would warrant a T--but it did, IMO, warrant the T.

Thanks for the love in any case.

[Josh Ovens]

Originally posted by RecRef

I cannot speak for the rest of the country but to become a varsity ref in my association takes many years. Years of evaluation at the Frosh and JV levels, working with varsity officials who will file written reports on you to both the BOD, the assigner(s), with a copy going to the ref. BTW, written evaluations are also used between varsity officials. So, contrary to what I said about the bright lights, by the time one gets to doing varsity games he/she is no rookie.

As to the coach going home and thinking about it, yes he will. “I got away with it tonight; I’ll do it again another time.”

im sorry, i meant the official would learn and he was gonna go home and think about what happened. i think your right abuot the coach though...haha

[Josh Ovens]

Originally posted by dhodges007

I agree, but don't call one FOR your partner. As the experienced official if your partner needs your help. Talk to the coach or captain or whoever is giving you the problem. Once you talk to them, you deal with it. But I wouldn't suggest giving a T "for" your partner. IMO I think you did the right thing by letting your partner handle it.

I don't quite agree. I think Josh is right that you should let him live or die with his call. You didn't need to act if your partner was still in the game. If he had the look of a scared puppy, then, maybe. Did you talk to him about this during TOs, inbetween quarters, and half time? What did your partner say in regards to how he wanted to handle the situation?

in this situation, i think a good veteran varsity official who is WILLING to let the young guy live and learn , will if the vet feels the rookie is maybe taking a little too much SH*T, then to ask him a question in the pregram BEFORE anythign has happened, that way it doesnt make the rookie uncomfortable during the game or after the fact. ASK him something like: "if a coach begins riding you tonite while its your first night out there, hwo do you plan on handling it?" that way, the vet knows not to get too worried if he plans on being passive his first night unless its obvious, or if hes gonna go out there and stick to his guns and be real firm. i think vets need to give young guys some breathing room, how else are we gonna learn?