Define Dunk

[coach2]

and calling people trolls

[MN 3 Sport Ref]

Sorry we seemed hostile. It is just that some people come on this board and ignorantly question what we stand for. Most of the talk on this board pertains to HS FED and NC2A basketball and it is clearly defined in the rule book that a player may not dunk in warmups. If a player is that skilled and can dunk why would he need to practice that??? Also if a backboard is broken it creates a huge injury hazard not to mention a mess for the school. If a kid dunks in a game more power to him!!!! (we love to see it too) Also what if a player attempts to dunk and is injured??? Who could be liable??? The refs as we have authority over the contest at that point (Think about that once) It may be different in Europe but that is how it is overhere.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by coach2
and calling people trolls

Maybe next time you'll consider your reply before you call any referee a "joke".That was demeaning,and totally unecessary. If you want to disagree with someone,that's fine. But if you start the "namecalling",don't start crying and moaning when someone reciprocates.We have to earn respect by doing our job properly. So do you! You'll never earn any respect with any officials by demeaning them.

[coach2]

Thought it was a joke giving sombody a T without saying something like :,,Hey Big Boy you are not allowed to dunk"
I didn't mean to tell that referees are a joke.


We had this rule in Europe but it doesn't exist anymore and the reasons, as I remember it, were the points I gave. Almost everywere we now have this dunkrims (I don't know the right word) And I haven't seen any broken basket for years now.

I think there is a difference between dunking and trying to destroy the basket! But that will be clear to everybody

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by coach2
We had this rule in Europe but it doesn't exist anymore and the reasons, as I remember it, were the points I gave. Almost everywere we now have this dunkrims (I don't know the right word) And I haven't seen any broken basket for years now.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If happens quite often here. Just last year, we had a backboard shatter on a dunk during a high school game at a school that I officiate at. Three players were cut by glass, one of them so severely on the leg that he couldn't play for three games.

I think there is a difference between dunking and trying to destroy the basket! But that will be clear to everybody

Sorry but either will get you a T under high school rules in the U.S.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jan 15th, 2003 at 03:46 PM]

[Hawks Coach]

Tony
Please bear in mind that Coach2 is not a native English speaker, and the word "he" in many languages means the same thing as "it" in our language. He has said that his words may not be correct, and he is trying to communicate a viewpoint on the dnk rule. I accept that explanation.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by coach2

I didn't mean to tell that referees are a joke.

Fine,Coach. We both made our points. Now we get to forget about it and move on.

Referees aren't supposed to hold grudges,and are supposed to have a short memory. Come to think of it,that supposed to apply to coaches too.

[ChuckElias]

And now, back to your regularly scheduled thread. . .

What's the definition of the dunk? In pregame, my definition is not hard and fast, but usually includes touching the rim. If you can throw it down from above, and not endanger the rim, glass, or yourself, 99.99% of the time I'm not going to have a call. However, I will say to the player (or his captain, if I know who it is) "If I decide that's a dunk, it's a T. Don't make me decide, ok?"

Chuck

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

What's the definition of the dunk? In pregame, my definition is not hard and fast, but usually includes touching the rim.

Chuck,are you making up your own definition for a dunk? Neither the FED or NCAA rulebook definitions mentions the rim as being any factor in the description of a dunk. They both basically say that a dunk is driving,forcing or pushing the ball down through the basket.I agree that those attributes are open for interpretation,but the rim really doesn't have anything to do with it,IMO,unless they hang on it.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Chuck,are you making up your own definition for a dunk? Neither the FED or NCAA rulebook definitions mentions the rim as being any factor in the description of a dunk. They both basically say that a dunk is driving,forcing or pushing the ball down through the basket.

I don't think so, JR. In my experience, the vast majority of dunks involve carrying the ball into the cylinder and then forcing the ball through the basket, which inevitably causes the shooter's hand to contact the rim.

As I said, if you can the throw the ball through the basket from above without contacting the rim, then there is a 99.99% chance that you didn't dunk it. I would have a very difficult time calling a T simply b/c the player was able to "throw" the ball through the basket, instead of simply "releasing" it. As always, just my opinion,

Chuck

[coach2]

Yeah,

Whatever.

Still don't understand why dunking before a game is a not to overcome risk and dunking during the game is a well taken risk.

But ok I understand the discusion is not to critizise the rules but more to work with them.

I like Chucks way of handling things

And by the way.

if a coach is nailing the other team I wouldn't be listning to him. I tell him to stay home with his mama. So he can tell her his little brother stole a cookie.

[Hawks Coach]

Romano
We are talking high school rules, and I think these rules make sense. High schools can't afford the "slam dunk" rims, players are not as skilled, they want to showboat and break that backboard with the power dunk, etc. A visiting team could trash a basket in warm-ups, at expense to the host school and delay to the start of the game (or postponement). Without illegalizing the warm-up dunk, oit would be just part of the game. Our schools already spend a lot of time and $ fixing bent up rims cause kids don't respect the equipment. Can't afford that kind of abuse.

By the way, our travel leagues all have rules that outlaw dunks, because the schools won't let you in the gym if your players are going to be on their rims all the time. If you dunk in game or warm-up, you are out for that game and the next, by travel league rule.

Don't need to dunk before a game - just warm-up and practice your dunking on your own court, and on your own time.

[coach2]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Romano
We are talking high school rules, and I think these rules make sense. High schools can't afford the "slam dunk" rims,

Than it's simple.

Thanks Hawk

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Romano
We are talking high school rules, and I think these rules make sense. High schools can't afford the "slam dunk" rims, players are not as skilled, they want to showboat and break that backboard with the power dunk, etc. A visiting team could trash a basket in warm-ups, at expense to the host school and delay to the start of the game (or postponement). Without illegalizing the warm-up dunk, oit would be just part of the game. Our schools already spend a lot of time and $ fixing bent up rims cause kids don't respect the equipment. Can't afford that kind of abuse.

By the way, our travel leagues all have rules that outlaw dunks, because the schools won't let you in the gym if your players are going to be on their rims all the time. If you dunk in game or warm-up, you are out for that game and the next, by travel league rule.

Don't need to dunk before a game - just warm-up and practice your dunking on your own court, and on your own time.

Coach, am I reading you right?
There are no dunks allowed ANYTIME during the pregame warm-ups?

In our region, dunks are allowed in pregame, untill the Officials arrive on the court...usually 15 minutes before game time.
We were told it's not about injury or damage...it's about "showing up" the officials, a good sportsmanship thing. (Personally, I don't care if they dunk...but, it's a rule our association wants enforced)

Dude

[Hawks Coach]

Schools do not want these non-school teams coming in and trashing the joint on Saturday afternoon, right before their big game on Saturday night.

My bet is that they would charge the league, and the league doesn't want to risk having to pay for damage, hence the league makes a tough rule. It works for me!

Then again, I like Denny Bridges, the former Illinois Wesleyan coach (most famous alum was Jack Sikma of the world champion SUPERsonics). Upon his recent retirement after an unbelievable number of years coaching at IWU, he just finished a book titled "A Dunk is Only Worth Two Points." It's on my birthday list! (if you wanna get it for me, I'll be happy to give you my address )