Flagrant DQ'ed player

williebfree · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 11, 2003, 11:03pm

NFHS: Freshman Boys game
V1 (Visitors) steals ball from the careless point guard near division line and beats H1 (Home) back for an easy lay-up. H1 violently pushes V1 causing him to stumble and slam into the wall at the end of the gym. It appeared that H1 was attempting to instigate a fight. Easy call, Flagrant Personal Foul. Here is where I look for feedback...

According to Casebook 10-3-10 (pg 75) H1 is DQ'ed and remains under the supervison of the coach AND jurisdiction of the officials.

In my situation, the coach insisted that his player return to the team lockerroom. I did not want to delay the game to verify that an adult was in the lockerroom to supervise the player. I stearnly told the coach that the player must remain on the bench. The coach complied with my directive.

What is the next option if the coach continued to insist that the player return to the lockerroom? BTW: the coach WAS game management in this situation.

zebraman · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 11, 2003, 11:24pm

I could be mistaken, but I believe that the rule is written that way such that the player may stay on the bench under the jurisdiction of the coach and officials as opposed to a coach who must leave the playing area after a disqualification. If the coach wants to send the player to the locker room after you eject him, I don't think that's something you can "overrule" any more than when a J.V. coach sends a kid to the locker room early because he's going to play in the varsity game.

Z

BktBallRef · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 11, 2003, 11:38pm

Agreed. You sent him to the bench. The coach sent him to the locker room. The statement, "...remains under the supervison of the coach AND jurisdiction of the officials," was included so that you can address any further misconduct by the player. It doesn't force the coach to keep him on the bench, although I agree that he should, unless an adult leaves with him.

bigwhistle · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 12, 2003, 08:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by williebfree

In my situation, the coach insisted that his player return to the team lockerroom. I did not want to delay the game to verify that an adult was in the lockerroom to supervise the player. I stearnly told the coach that the player must remain on the bench. The coach complied with my directive.

What is the next option if the coach continued to insist that the player return to the lockerroom? BTW: the coach WAS game management in this situation.

This situation is one of the main reasons that the head coach should not be allowed to be the game management for the game. There should be someone else designated for this role. The varsity coach can be G.M. for freshman game and the freshman coach for varsity game. The same person should not be wearing the both hats at the same time.

mick · #5 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 12, 2003, 08:45pm

Why not just use the assistant Freshman coach ?

twoblindrefs · #6 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 12, 2003, 10:13pm

Just be clear when you eject that your instructions to the coach do not specifically tell the caoch to send the player to the lockerroom. If you just eject and tell the caoch the player is "ejected and must remain on the bench" then you should have no interest in what the coach does as far as sending him to the lockerroom....maybe, he is sending him to detention with the principal for unsporting conduct!

moose69 · #7 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 12, 2003, 10:38pm

I personally don't like that rule. I think that if a person is misbehaving bad enough to earn themselves a flagrant, that they have no business being in the vicinity of the court.I think they should be out of the gym and in the dressing room, just like the coach would be if he he got tossed. I don't believe that we should be responsible for anything that happens to the little brat that saw his way fit to misbehave.

My own two Canadian cents.

Mark Dexter · #8 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 12, 2003, 10:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by moose69
I don't believe that we should be responsible for anything that happens to the little brat that saw his way fit to misbehave.

My own two Canadian cents.

I agree.

Unfortunately, we Americans like to get every two cents (equivalent to 5,000 CDN) we can - so we tend to sue quite a bit.

mick · #9 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 12, 2003, 10:46pm

Quote:

Originally posted by moose69
I personally don't like that rule. I think that if a person is misbehaving bad enough to earn themselves a flagrant, that they have no business being in the vicinity of the court.I think they should be out of the gym and in the dressing room, just like the coach would be if he he got tossed. I don't believe that we should be responsible for anything that happens to the little brat that saw his way fit to misbehave.

My own two Canadian cents.

Well, certainly you have seen lockerrooms trashed after hockey games. Maybe less damage with shoes than curved sticks and skates, but this may reduce the possibility of damage by an irate, hormone driven player.

BTW, that money is worth, what, 1.27 cents?

williebfree · #10 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 12, 2003, 11:15pm

Quote:

Originally posted by moose69
I personally don't like that rule. I think that if a person is misbehaving bad enough to earn themselves a flagrant, that they have no business being in the vicinity of the court.I think they should be out of the gym and in the dressing room, just like the coach would be if he he got tossed. I don't believe that we should be responsible for anything that happens to the little brat that saw his way fit to misbehave.

My own two Canadian cents.

The rule is in existance to prevent an ejected (perhaps distraught) player from committing self-harm while unsupervised in a lockerroom. Damage to property is a secondary, but legitimate, concern, as well.

BktBallRef · #11 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 12, 2003, 11:17pm

Also, to prevent something from happening to the player.

williebfree · #12 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 12, 2003, 11:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by twoblindrefs
Just be clear when you eject that your instructions to the coach do not specifically tell the caoch to send the player to the lockerroom. If you just eject and tell the caoch the player is "ejected and must remain on the bench" then you should have no interest in what the coach does as far as sending him to the lockerroom....maybe, he is sending him to detention with the principal for unsporting conduct!

Twoblind...

I agree, I would never direct the coach to send a player to the lockerroom.

I also understand (far too well) the reasoning of having the rule which requires that the player stay on the bench. I work with juveniles, unfortunately I have had to physically intervene as some have made legitimate (some attention-seeking) efforts at suicide. For some kids, basketball is their identity and who knows how seriously they take the consequences of the events in this scenario. The rule is there to ensure adult supervision is maintained.

dhodges007 · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 13, 2003, 07:44am

Quote:

Originally posted by williebfree

Quote:

Originally posted by twoblindrefs
Just be clear when you eject that your instructions to the coach do not specifically tell the caoch to send the player to the lockerroom. If you just eject and tell the caoch the player is "ejected and must remain on the bench" then you should have no interest in what the coach does as far as sending him to the lockerroom....maybe, he is sending him to detention with the principal for unsporting conduct!

Twoblind...

I agree, I would never direct the coach to send a player to the lockerroom.

I also understand (far too well) the reasoning of having the rule which requires that the player stay on the bench. I work with juveniles, unfortunately I have had to physically intervene as some have made legitimate (some attention-seeking) efforts at suicide. For some kids, basketball is their identity and who knows how seriously they take the consequences of the events in this scenario. The rule is there to ensure adult supervision is maintained.

Good point. Thanks.