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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 05, 2003, 01:09am
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Working night shift tonight so unable to officiate any games...but, listened to one on the radio at work.

Top official in our association, and a good friend of mine, was one of two officials doing the game tonight.
Listening to the "radio guy", it sounded like there was a situation in which a foul was called on A1 and then B1 "retaliated" with some of kind of action. Not sure what kind of action, since I wasn't there, but enough for the "radio guy" to say there was going to be a "big argument".
The "radio guy" stated that he thought B1 was ejected from the game...but on further review...he said that the official must have "requested" a sub for B1. No "T" was given.

Have any of you ever done that?
Asked the Coach to get a Sub in for an unruly player?
Do you Coaches like for an official to ask you to "substitute" for a player to save him from getting a "T"?

Also, in my experiences, most Coaches substitute for the player that just received the "T" without being asked. I know they don't have to...but they do anyway.

Dude
P.S. In this same game...Visiting Coach B received a "T" with 6 seconds remaining in the game and losing by 6pts.
He was upset that his player, on the FT line, had just received a violation for "taking to much time" to shoot.
Whew!!...tough call!
(gotta talk to my buddy about this...there must have been some kind of blatant attempt to delay the game.)

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Old Sun Jan 05, 2003, 02:03am
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Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude
The "radio guy" stated that he thought B1 was ejected from the game...but on further review...he said that the official must have "requested" a sub for B1. No "T" was given. Have any of you ever done that? Asked the Coach to get a Sub in for an unruly player? Do you Coaches like for an official to ask you to "substitute" for a player to save him from getting a "T"?


P.S. In this same game...Visiting Coach B received a "T" with 6 seconds remaining in the game and losing by 6pts.
He was upset that his player, on the FT line, had just received a violation for "taking to much time" to shoot.
Whew!!...tough call!
(gotta talk to my buddy about this...there must have been some kind of blatant attempt to delay the game.)
When, in our class, we went over the rule about 10 seconds to shoot, someone asked the teacher if he'd ever called. He said, he only remembered once in 25 years, and that was when someone took 15 seconds. Once, I got to 12 twice on the same player, but she shot right at 12. I went to the coach first chance I got, and "reminded" her of the rule. It was freshman girls, and I figured probably no one knew. It didn't happen again in that game.

About the "suggesting" a sub, I wouldn't do it in a "real" game. But in one of the summer leagues I work, in order to keep things simple we don't keep track of personal fouls, but the ref can "sit someone down" for a while if he seems to be rough. I've sat a couple kids in that situation.
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Old Sun Jan 05, 2003, 08:46am
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Tsk! Tsk!

Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Once, I got to 12 twice on the same player, but she shot right at 12.
Jewel,
I think it's better to use "9-1/4", "9-1/2", "9-3/4"....
mick


One night, I spent a year in Saginaw.
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Old Sun Jan 05, 2003, 12:18pm
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It is not the job of the official to coach either team. Therefore, I would never suggest a substitution to a coach. Just carry on with the game but be very aware of the situation which might develop and act quickly to prevent problems. If that means a T so be it. If it requires a second T or a flagrant T then that is what you should do.
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Old Mon Jan 06, 2003, 10:58am
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To answer your question, yes....I have told a coach that he needs a player to be subbed for. This is done with a quick private explanation that his player needs some cooling off time before he hurts his team. The coaches have never ever complained and complied immediately.

This was not done to show the player up. It was done to prevent a problem from escalating on the floor. If the coach would not have substituted, we would have continued. However, the player in question would have been under a microscope while he was in the game.
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Old Mon Jan 06, 2003, 03:20pm
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I've done it also, in a "real" game... as a matter of fact, twice this season already.

First time, championship game of Thanksgiving tourney between two rivals. Called a block on the home team who were down by 2 at the time with 5 seconds to go in the game. V1 is going to the line for double bonus. H1 (the fouler) forcefully puts the ball down in the middle of the lane. I'm standing on the endline to administer the FTs and tell all the players that someone needs to get the ball. H2 picks it up, hands it to me and apologizes. H1 comes over, looks at the ball, gives it a little hit while I'm holding it against my chest. Blew the whistle and I'm prepared to hit him with a T. I walked to the bench, told the coach I needed a sub for H1, then turned (in a now hushed gym) and loudly told H1 he needed to have a seat as he was being subbed for. The place went nuts . I liked this solution because a T didn't decide the action, the game moved quickly to the end AND H1 was dealt with later by his coach.

Second time, last Saturday, JV boys. Visiting team is getting blown off the court (final score something like 129 - 19) and this kid's not real happy with how the game is going or how the whistles are going. I'd already cautioned him once earlier to play ball and keep quiet about the whistles but.... in the 2nd quarter, I'm T on FT admin and he's just muttering and staring, etc. I sidled up to him as they are lining up for FTs and asked him if he was going to settle down. I didn't like his answer, so I told the coach to get a sub in for him. He sat the rest of the first half.

I'm not saying this applies in every or even most cases. But I like the 2 times I used it this year.
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Old Mon Jan 06, 2003, 03:28pm
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If an official does this, I think it can be a service to the game. If the player is stewing, and getting close to the line, but not quite over, getting him to sit should help everyone out - including the other team. The coach may not be able to see or hear everything that the player is doing or saying, so the coach may not know that it needs to be stopped. If I don't catch it, I would be delighted to have that suggestion. Likewise, if its the player on the other team, I view it as reducing the likelihood of somebody getting hurt. If you can do it, I would say "Great game management!"
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Old Tue Jan 07, 2003, 11:36am
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Quote:
originally posted by ScottParks
H1 comes over, looks at the ball, gives it a little hit while I'm holding it against my chest
Scott...you showed incredible restraint, I must say!!
Whew!

Dude
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 07, 2003, 01:31pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ScottParks
I walked to the bench, told the coach I needed a sub for H1, then turned (in a now hushed gym) and loudly told H1 he needed to have a seat as he was being subbed for. The place went nuts . I liked this solution because a T didn't decide the action, the game moved quickly to the end AND H1 was dealt with later by his coach.
I fail to see the need to loudly announce to the gym that you have taken this step. That seems like a bit of grandstanding for no apparent reason, and perhaps a bit of trying to one-up the player. If you want H1 to be dealt with, you had done enough by talking to the coach.

Also, I am not sure why you didn't just give the T in this case and let the coach decide to remove the player. Sounds like a little bit too much attitude for me!
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2003, 08:14am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Quote:
Originally posted by ScottParks
I walked to the bench, told the coach I needed a sub for H1, then turned (in a now hushed gym) and loudly told H1 he needed to have a seat as he was being subbed for. The place went nuts . I liked this solution because a T didn't decide the action, the game moved quickly to the end AND H1 was dealt with later by his coach.
I fail to see the need to loudly announce to the gym that you have taken this step. That seems like a bit of grandstanding for no apparent reason, and perhaps a bit of trying to one-up the player. If you want H1 to be dealt with, you had done enough by talking to the coach.

Also, I am not sure why you didn't just give the T in this case and let the coach decide to remove the player. Sounds like a little bit too much attitude for me!
Sorry you feel that way!

There was no grandstanding intended. H1 had an attitude that probably deserved a T and in many cases for me would have gotten one. However, at that point in the game, I didn't think it would help the game and chose my path.

The gym was hushed and i believe fully expected a T as it was obvious where the attitue was.

I'd do it again and the same way.
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Old Fri Jan 17, 2003, 12:08am
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Been There Done That!

Yep. I think it is an acceptable way to handle a situation without throwing out a T, especially if you have two guys at each others throats. SUGGEST to the coaches that they might want to get subs for these guys. Most coaches will cooperate.

TEN SECONDS AT THE FREE THROW LINE.
Had my first one in ten years last Friday. 2nd team was in for clean up duty at the end of the game and this kid was spinnin' it on his hand and looking at it, dippin at the waist a couple of times..... Was already a long game so I called it. My partner told me he counted to 15!!! I waited till ten, but I think I started over a couple of times!
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Old Fri Jan 17, 2003, 12:02pm
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I think that letting a coach know that a certain player may need to cool off on the bench for a few moments is a good game management technique. I would not make a big show out of it, more approach it from the angle of "Coach, it might be better if you take care of number 33 than if I have to do it" That usually gets the message across with out telling the coach to sub for a player.

I don't think that I would handle it the way Scott did, but it seems to have worked for him.

On the ten seconds to shoot a free throw, I have seen it called only once in a small college game. The player just stood there at the line playing with the ball and occassionally looking over at the official. It seemed like he was daring the official to call the violation! The player got his wish.
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