Run Clock Run

[LarryS]

Sometimes you can’t win.

My first game Saturday morning…girls varsity. Less than 10 seconds in the half, ball goes OOB off B so team A to have throw-in near the division line in their frontcourt. I’m trail, tableside getting ready to administer the throw-in. I hear Coach A say “Time”. I blow my whistle and say “Time out...white”. You can probably guess what had happened. He was not requesting a TO, but was reminding his team to be aware of the time on the clock. In his defense, he started explaining before I even had a chance to finish saying those three words. I stood there for a moment, declared it an inadvertent whistle and prepared to continue. Coach B stands up and starts to complain. I told her it was my mistake; I would do the same for her if the situation were reversed. She was not real happy, but didn’t complain loudly.

Fast forward to mid third quarter. Again, I am trail this time opposite table. Closely guarded situation in front of me with B1 looking to get rid of the ball. I hear “Time Out” from across the court. Not gonna burn me twice...may be a fan. I look at Coach B and she is making a T sign and repeats the request. OK...tweet. Guess what, in the second I looked away B1 had dropped the ball and was struggling to get it back (it was between her feet) and A1 was trying to slap it away for a steal. So I just granted a TO to team B when nobody had control of the ball. GEEZ. Coach A starts to go nuts, I walk over and tell him the TO was granted when I heard it, and at that time, team B had control (just forget about the delay in the whistle). He just stood there looking at me, so I added quietly, “Besides, you got a break before halftime”. He wheeled around and took a seat.

Rest of the game seems like a lifetime...have you ever noticed how slow a clock runs?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by LarryS
Sometimes you can’t win.

My first game Saturday morning…girls varsity. Less than 10 seconds in the half, ball goes OOB off B so team A to have throw-in near the division line in their frontcourt. I’m trail, tableside getting ready to administer the throw-in. I hear Coach A say “Time”. I blow my whistle and say “Time out...white”. You can probably guess what had happened. He was not requesting a TO, but was reminding his team to be aware of the time on the clock. In his defense, he started explaining before I even had a chance to finish saying those three words. I stood there for a moment, declared it an inadvertent whistle and prepared to continue. Coach B stands up and starts to complain. I told her it was my mistake; I would do the same for her if the situation were reversed. She was not real happy, but didn’t complain loudly.

Fast forward to mid third quarter. Again, I am trail this time opposite table. Closely guarded situation in front of me with B1 looking to get rid of the ball. I hear “Time Out” from across the court. Not gonna burn me twice...may be a fan. I look at Coach B and she is making a T sign and repeats the request. OK...tweet. Guess what, in the second I looked away B1 had dropped the ball and was struggling to get it back (it was between her feet) and A1 was trying to slap it away for a steal. So I just granted a TO to team B when nobody had control of the ball. GEEZ. Coach A starts to go nuts, I walk over and tell him the TO was granted when I heard it, and at that time, team B had control (just forget about the delay in the whistle). He just stood there looking at me, so I added quietly, “Besides, you got a break before halftime”. He wheeled around and took a seat.

Rest of the game seems like a lifetime...have you ever noticed how slow a clock runs?

Lets address your second situation first. At the time that Coach B requested a timeout, B1 had player control of the ball. It does not matter that B1 then lost control of the ball between the time that Coach B made her request and you responded to her request. Valid timeout of Team B.

Your first situationn is tougher. I would bet apples to oranges that when Coach A said the word "time" he was close enough to you and directly behind you that one could assume that he was whispering sweet nothings in your ear. If that was the case, Coach A just made a successful request for a team timeout.

[Rich]

...happened to me a few weeks ago.

A coach in the area has a play he calls "five-out."

Well, guess what that sounded like to this trail official.

The coach thought I was whacking him, since he was working my partner just a minute earlier. It was mild stuff, really -- couldn't remember what he had said even then.

Comic relief? Yes.

Charged timeout? Nope. I got the teams back on the floor and we started playing. Nobody said a word although there was quite a bit of laughter for a minute.

Rich

[ace]

Something I learned about timeouts. When I hear a coach yelling time out, I check possession, quick scan of the floor to see if any players are calling the time out too and check the coach and whose teams he's on - possession one last time and TWEET: TIMEOUT _COLOR_ . Sounds like a lot only takes about a second or two. Under 45 sec I check possession and then coach. Screw the rest. But I figure if a coach is hollerin for a timeout one of his players is gunna signal and ask for it too.

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
[QUOTELets address your second situation first. At the time that Coach B requested a timeout, B1 had player control of the ball. It does not matter that B1 then lost control of the ball between the time that Coach B made her request and you responded to her request. Valid timeout of Team B.

Your first situationn is tougher. I would bet apples to oranges that when Coach A said the word "time" he was close enough to you and directly behind you that one could assume that he was whispering sweet nothings in your ear. If that was the case, Coach A just made a successful request for a team timeout.

Mark
I agree with your reasoning on the original second (now your first) case. But you appear to be saying that the first original case should also be a TO - because the ref misunderstood, now a team is getting charged with a TO. To reset this situation, the ball is not even in the hands of the inbounder, so this is not a piece of gamesmanship on the part of a coach trying to avoid a 5 second count or a turnover. The coach did not want TO, had no obvious reason to pull a stunt to get the ref to blow a stoppage, and gained nothing by doing so even if he intended to pull a stunt - this is a dead ball. Please explain why this should be a TO.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
...happened to me a few weeks ago.

A coach in the area has a play he calls "five-out."

Well, guess what that sounded like to this trail official.

The coach thought I was whacking him, since he was working my partner just a minute earlier. It was mild stuff, really -- couldn't remember what he had said even then.

Comic relief? Yes.

Charged timeout? Nope. I got the teams back on the floor and we started playing. Nobody said a word although there was quite a bit of laughter for a minute.

Rich

I'm doing a medal game at a summer provincial tournament a few years ago at York University. I'm T, table side, about 10 feet from coach A. I hear some words from coach A that sound like "time-out", but am not sure. Then he says them again, louder, and with more emphasis. I decide that he's asking for a timeout, so I confirm his team has player control to grant him the TO. In the meantime, he's standing up, very much telling everyone "time-out".

I grant the TO. (His team was pressured near the division line.) The guy evaluating starts laughing. Right away I know something is up because this gentleman is one of the funniest guys I've ever met. Turns out the coach was yelling "five-out" - the name of a play that his team uses. Both coaches got a bit of a laugh out of it and about 5 seconds of some instruction to their respective players.

Luckily for me my evaluator was very understanding.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ace
Something I learned about timeouts. When I hear a coach yelling time out, I check possession, quick scan of the floor to see if any players are calling the time out too and check the coach and whose teams he's on - possession one last time and TWEET: TIMEOUT _COLOR_ . Sounds like a lot only takes about a second or two. Under 45 sec I check possession and then coach. Screw the rest. But I figure if a coach is hollerin for a timeout one of his players is gunna signal and ask for it too.

Good advice,Ace.

I usually tell the coaches before the game when we introduce ourselves(1)head coach only can call the TO from the bench(2)give us a visual T,if you can.It'll help us out and you'll get it quicker.

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

I remember an NFL game from 5-10 years ago, when Troy Aikman was signaling an audible to his receivers. His signal was his hands in the shape of a T. The 'Boys got a TO and I remember thinking, "never have a play name that sounds like timeout or a signal that is a T."

[Mark Dexter]

Hasn't happened to me in basketball (yet) but I have had it happen in flag football. Our back judge keeps the official clock, and once at R, a few guys from one team came up to me shouting "Time, time!!" I stop the clock - assuming they wanted a timeout because I didn't know exactly how much was left on the clock.

In this situation, no harm done. The ball was dead and the clock was stopped, so just get going as soon as possible. What I'm interested in is everyone's feelings when (if) this happens during a live ball, running clock situation.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.


Lets address your second situation first. At the time that Coach B requested a timeout, B1 had player control of the ball. It does not matter that B1 then lost control of the ball between the time that Coach B made her request and you responded to her request. Valid timeout of Team B.

MTD
Are you sure you want to stand by this? 5-8-3A tells us that a time-out request shall only be granted when the ball is in control or at the disposal of a player of the team.
You write that at the time that Coach B requested a time-out, B1 had player control. That is not the same as B1 having player control at the time when the time-out was granted. I think that according to the rule it really does matter what happens during the time between the request and when the official responds to the request.
I understand that many officials have the same philosophy as you do on this. ie. If the official is late responding that is not the team's fault and the TO should be granted.
May I just point out, that is not what the rule says!

[Rich]

And my opinion, the granting of a timeout is when I acknowledge the request mentally, not when I blow the whistle.

As the timer gets some lag in stopping the clock, so do I.

Rich

[Ridge Wiz]

I had a coach start yelling, "30, 30, 30". I didn't know what th' he!! the excitment was about at first. I noted what team had ball control & then ask the coach, "Do you want a Time Out?" He excitely said, "Yes!". I give a tweet & grant him a time out. During the TO I discuss what just happen with my P. We decide to let the coach know that he should say "Time Out." Part of the justification is, as far as we know he could be calling play # 30. This coach is a typical H. Monkey too.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

MTD
Are you sure you want to stand by this? 5-8-3A tells us that a time-out request shall only be granted when the ball is in control or at the disposal of a player of the team.
You write that at the time that Coach B requested a time-out, B1 had player control. That is not the same as B1 having player control at the time when the time-out was granted. I think that according to the rule it really does matter what happens during the time between the request and when the official responds to the request.
I understand that many officials have the same philosophy as you do on this. ie. If the official is late responding that is not the team's fault and the TO should be granted.
May I just point out, that is not what the rule says!

To quote NFHS R5-S8-A3a: Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official: Grants a player's/head coach's oral or visual request for a time-out, such request being granted only when: The ball is in control or at the diposal of a player of his/her team. NCAA R5-S9-A3a and A4 address the same situations as NFHS R5-S8-A3a does.

This rule has always been interpreted to mean that the request must be made during player control or is at the team's disposal for a throw-in or a freethrow, not when the official signals for the time-out. To interpret the rule as you do would penalize the team requesting the time-out.

I am sure that must about all rules interpreters will agree with me that both the NFHS and NCAA language is not the clearest, but the intent is the same: grant the request if the request was made when there is player control or the ball is at the disposal of the thrower (throw-in or freethrow).

[Mregor]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
And my opinion, the granting of a timeout is when I acknowledge the request mentally, not when I blow the whistle.

As the timer gets some lag in stopping the clock, so do I.

Rich

My sentiments exactly' you just beat me to it. How could an airborne player about to land out of bounds be granted a timeout otherwise?

Mregor

[MN 3 Sport Ref]

I have heard and watched coaches use many different motions and words to request a time out (sometimes very funny). In Minnesota a lot of times at the HS level we bring the coaches into the pre-game and I quickly mention to them that we must hear the words time out as well as see the signal. I also mention that if there is intense action on the court we as officials cannot be turning around to see if the howler is just going through one of his routines or is actually requesting a timeout. Players need to be aware of situations as well (or informed by their coach). I granted a timeout to a five-out call two years ago in a big tournament game and from that learning experience I make sure I understand exactly what the coach wants. It is his job to be clear not for us to be mindreaders.

As for the second part of this thread dealing w/ the lag time in hearing the timeout and granting it I definately agree that the timeout is granter when we visually or audibly see/hear the timeout request. The airborne player going out of bounds is an excellent example...