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-   -   2011 NCAAM Sweet 16 (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/65510-2011-ncaam-sweet-16-a.html)

stiffler3492 Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 743728)
Fair question. Howard sees an open player about to receive the ball and starts to head out to guard him. The question is, who gets the rights to the intersection of their paths?

Had the passer continued his dribble, the defender would have been charged, certainly. But he didn't, he passed, and his actions constituted a screen. Look at the results of the play, it's just like any other screen where the screener is late.
Ok, but how does the fact that Taylor is in the air change the equation? Isn't an airborne player entitled to land without obstruction?

tref Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 743717)
What's the NCAA rule about airborne players?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 743732)
Ok, but how does the fact that Taylor is in the air change the equation? Isn't an airborne player entitled to land without obstruction?
Doesn't the "airborne" rule pertain to the shooter?

Other than that, isn't everyone entitled to a spot on the floor (exception is the secondary defender under the basket for NCAA-M)?

APG Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref (Post 743734)
Doesn't the "airborne" rule pertain to the shooter?

Other than that, isn't everyone entitled to a spot on the floor (exception is the secondary defender under the basket)?
Except one has to legally get in the path of an airborne player before the player is airborne...with or without the ball. The only thing that will change with regards to having the ball or not is time and distance. It's never legal to undercut an airborne player.

Raymond Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 743731)
Another play from the BYU v. Florida game...block/charge play

YouTube - Block/Charge Jimmer Fredette

I'd be banging the hips on this one for a block.

Me too. Left leg was sticking way outside of his normal stance.

JugglingReferee Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 743731)
Another play from the BYU v. Florida game...block/charge play

<iframe title="YouTube video player" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/_OtvoqJYGGQ?hd=1" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="390" width="640"></iframe>

I'd be banging the hips on this one for a block.
Agreed. Not even close to a foul by A1.

tref Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 743736)
Except one has to legally get in the path of an airborne player before the player is airborne...with or without the ball. The only thing that will change with regards to having the ball or not is time and distance. It's never legal to undercut an airborne player.
No doubt!

Adam Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 743732)
Ok, but how does the fact that Taylor is in the air change the equation? Isn't an airborne player entitled to land without obstruction?
I'm not any more positive he was in the air than I am that Howard was in the air. It's pretty close, to be honest. And a screener doesn't get to launch himself into the air here just to make an otherwise illegal screen legal.

stiffler3492 Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 743736)
Except one has to legally get in the path of an airborne player before the player is airborne...with or without the ball. The only thing that will change with regards to having the ball or not is time and distance. It's never legal to undercut an airborne player.
That's the point I'm trying to make here. If anything, it should be a foul on Howard. Obviously, if Howard were in that spot before Taylor took off, the impetus is on Taylor.

I still have nothing.

Adam Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 743739)
Agreed. Not even close to a foul by A1.
It's close, the contact is on the defender's left shoulder/chest. So, while B1's leg is a little wide, I don't see it as responsible for the contact. Had Jimmer tripped over the outstretched leg, it would be different, IMO.

Adam Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 743743)
That's the point I'm trying to make here. If anything, it should be a foul on Howard. Obviously, if Howard were in that spot before Taylor took off, the impetus is on Taylor.

I still have nothing.
Let me ask you this:
A2, setting a screen on B1, sees B1 is going to go around the screen. Just as B1 gets close, A2 jumps airborne into the path of B1 causing a collision.

You calling B1?

JugglingReferee Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 743744)
It's close, the contact is on the defender's left shoulder/chest. So, while B1's leg is a little wide, I don't see it as responsible for the contact. Had Jimmer tripped over the outstretched leg, it would be different, IMO.
That's a fair and accurate description.

I should have said, "it's not close to me." I've got a block every day and twice on Sunday if this happened 8 times in one week.

JugglingReferee Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 743747)
Let me ask you this:
A2, setting a screen on B1, sees B1 is going to go around the screen. Just as B1 gets close, A2 jumps airborne into the path of B1 causing a collision.

You calling B1?
B1's path is already established. It was A2 that changed his path to interfere with B1, so it's A2's foul. A2 becoming airborne doesn't release himself of responsibility of avoiding B1's path.

Raymond Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 743744)
It's close, the contact is on the defender's left shoulder/chest. So, while B1's leg is a little wide, I don't see it as responsible for the contact. Had Jimmer tripped over the outstretched leg, it would be different, IMO.
I'm seeing contact to the leg. I'm wondering if the primary defender blocked some of the view of the Lead?

I know now after looking at this video that if I'm lead on this particular type of play I'm gonna take a step or 2 to the right so I see around the primary defender.

stiffler3492 Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 743747)
Let me ask you this:
A2, setting a screen on B1, sees B1 is going to go around the screen. Just as B1 gets close, A2 jumps airborne into the path of B1 causing a collision.

You calling B1?
Obviously not but I think the situation is completely different. Taylor made a basketball play. He jumped before he passed, and then he didn't change his path before Howard moved into it.

Adam Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 743757)
Obviously not but I think the situation is completely different. Taylor made a basketball play. He jumped before he passed, and then he didn't change his path before Howard moved into it.
We see it differently, then.

1. I'ts hard to tell if his foot is off the ground. It's not a jump so much as a step in his trot.

2. Either way, it was a screen. He was moving when the contact was made, and he was not moving in a legal way for a screen.


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