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-   -   2011 NCAA Tournament Officials (Master Thread) (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/64992-2011-ncaa-tournament-officials-master-thread.html)

Raymond Sun Mar 20, 2011 06:04pm
Also, no Tom O'Neill or Gene Steratore this season.

orangeump Sun Mar 20, 2011 07:22pm
Tom O'Neil worked Friday in Chicago. Doesn't appear as if he will be working there today, however.

Spence Sun Mar 20, 2011 08:16pm
I'm reading many quotes/tweets tonight about the AZ/Texas game saying that the UT player could not call a TO because the official's count was already at 4. Is that correct? As I read it he can call it anytime before count gets to 5.

From http://www.ncaapublications.com/prod...loads/BR11.pdf

Page 95

Section 12. Timeouts Not Granted
Art. 1. No timeouts shall be granted:
a. To the opponents of the throw-in team after the throw-in starts.
b. During an interrupted dribble.
c. To a player or coach when an airborne player’s momentum is
carrying him/her out of bounds or into the backcourt.
d. Unless there is player control by the requesting team. Exception:
Rule 5-12.1.c.
e. Until after the jump ball that begins the game an

justacoach Sun Mar 20, 2011 08:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence (Post 741722)
I'm reading many quotes/tweets tonight about the AZ/Texas game saying that the UT player could not call a TO because the official's count was already at 4. Is that correct?
Not sure about NCAA but this ruling has not been valid in FED since circa 1974;)

bob jenkins Mon Mar 21, 2011 07:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence (Post 741722)
I'm reading many quotes/tweets tonight about the AZ/Texas game saying that the UT player could not call a TO because the official's count was already at 4. Is that correct?
The tweeters are wrong.

And, this is the wrong thread for this.

grunewar Mon Mar 21, 2011 07:32am
Officiating expert on-air is a good call by CBS/Turner - USATODAY.com

Agree? Disagree? Thoughts?

GoodwillRef Mon Mar 21, 2011 09:20am
Mizzou/Cincy: Antinio Petty, John Higgins, Terry Wymer

Butler/Pitt: Antinio Petty, John Higgins, Terry Wymer


Only crew to work all together twice in the tournament.

Multiple Sports Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:40am
Orange Ump / Bad News ....Great job !!!!!!!
 
Thanks for keeping us updated on whom is working........

Now I am wondering if anyone can/wants to compose the following.....

1 - "Heavy Hitters" who were on the bench this weekend

2 - 1st timers to the dance

Personal opionions would love to see John Cahill or Mike Nance at any time

weekend. Burr will work thurs/fri and that will be it. Wait then he will work

every NIT game !!!!!!!!!! Forgot Corbett and Braian Kersey - think they do

a great job........

Nevadaref Tue Mar 22, 2011 01:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 741901)

From the comments section:
MRM4TN

10:00 AM on March 21, 2011
If Clark Kellogg was a white man, don't you think he'd be called a racist for calling Barkley an orangutan?


leefoo

9:36 AM on March 21, 2011
As a former basketball official, I applaud the use of an official in the booth.

I agree, though, that they need to bring a retired one in, one that won't be afraid to be critical.

Speaking of Packer, I am glad he recognizes the need, because some of his comments on officials made me cringe. It was obvious he didn't know the rules.

Nevadaref Tue Mar 22, 2011 01:50am
Since the officials for the first two rounds are prescheduled, why isn't it set up such that an official doesn't see the same team in both games if he is one of the six who work twice during that weekend?

That is something that I would try to make happen if scheduling it.

grunewar Tue Mar 22, 2011 04:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 742261)
From the comments section:
MRM4TN

10:00 AM on March 21, 2011
If Clark Kellogg was a white man, don't you think he'd be called a racist for calling Barkley an orangutan?
Ask Howard Cosell! :rolleyes:

Raymond Tue Mar 22, 2011 08:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 742281)
Ask Howard Cosell! :rolleyes:
Problem being Clark Kellog didn't say Barkley looked like an orangutan. He described 3 attributes that made Barkley a tenacious rebounder. One of those was his long arms--"arms like an orangutan".

Maybe not the greatest choice of a descriptor but far from saying he "looked like an orangutan".

Now back on topic to Nevada's question. Everyday I'm involved in officiating more-and-more I realize I'll never understand why supervisors make the decisions they make.

Just like I don't understand why an entire crew worked together on Thursday and Saturday.

Michael Jordan Tue Mar 22, 2011 03:34pm
Tournament Officials Stats
 
Will the statistics of how many fouls, violations were called in the tournament be posted somewhere on the net? Before this past weekend, I'm curious to know when was the last time a 5 second violation was called on an inbounds play in the NCAA Tourney.

Raymond Tue Mar 22, 2011 03:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Jordan (Post 742487)
Will the statistics of how many fouls, violations were called in the tournament be posted somewhere on the net? Before this past weekend, I'm curious to know when was the last time a 5 second violation was called on an inbounds play in the NCAA Tourney.
Browse College Basketball Referees - StatSheet.com

Good luck on your search.

WreckRef Tue Mar 22, 2011 06:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 741901)
I think it's a great idea but agree that it needs to be a retired official.

Fox hit the nail on the head by having the former head of officiating on camera. Who better to ask rules questions?

Announcers may not like it because they would finally learn how stupid they really are when it comes to rules.

26 Year Gap Tue Mar 22, 2011 07:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WreckRef (Post 742586)
I think it's a great idea but agree that it needs to be a retired official.

Fox hit the nail on the head by having the former head of officiating on camera. Who better to ask rules questions?

Announcers may not like it because they would finally learn how stupid they really are when it comes to rules.
+ infinity

cmar Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:13am
it's not the ncaa tournament, but I think the officiating in the Washington State-Northwestern game has been beyond fantastic. They've had some tough calls and have done a perfect job.

Nevadaref Thu Mar 24, 2011 02:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmar (Post 743141)
it's not the ncaa tournament, but I think the officiating in the Washington State-Northwestern game has been beyond fantastic. They've had some tough calls and have done a perfect job.
We'll see if any of these 12 work in the NCAA tournament this coming weekend.

NIT quarterfinals:
Northwestern/Wash State --Officials: Kelly Self, Dick Cartmell, Eric Curry

Charleston/Wichita State--Officials: Alfred Smith, Terry Oglesby, Ray Natili

Miami (FL)/Alabama--Officials: Wally Rutecki, Earl Walton , Jeff Anderson

Kent State/Colorado--Officials: Chris Rastatter, Keith Kimble, Kevin Brill

Raymond Thu Mar 24, 2011 08:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 743161)
We'll see if any of these 12 work in the NCAA tournament this coming weekend.

NIT quarterfinals:
Northwestern/Wash State --Officials: Kelly Self, Dick Cartmell, Eric Curry

Charleston/Wichita State--Officials: Alfred Smith, Terry Oglesby, Ray Natili

Miami (FL)/Alabama--Officials: Wally Rutecki, Earl Walton , Jeff Anderson

Kent State/Colorado--Officials: Chris Rastatter, Keith Kimble, Kevin Brill
Well, a good number of those officials didn't work the NCAA tourney the first week so we know they won't be going. But we did have a Earl Walton sighting.

Multiple Sports Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:00pm
Has the Assigner Changed...........
 
It seemed that in past years only Big East and ACC guys were working the NIT. Does anyone know how those are assignments are being handled this year??

Raymond Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multiple Sports (Post 743317)
It seemed that in past years only Big East and ACC guys were working the NIT. Does anyone know how those are assignments are being handled this year??

I noticed that in the past also but I don't if my perception was actually fact.

rulesmaven Thu Mar 24, 2011 02:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 742263)
Since the officials for the first two rounds are prescheduled, why isn't it set up such that an official doesn't see the same team in both games if he is one of the six who work twice during that weekend?

That is something that I would try to make happen if scheduling it.
I think it used to be this way back before the "pod" system, when the 8 team bracket and then the 4 team bracket would play in order in each subregional. Now, CBS is given considerable flexibility in how they schedule the games on the first Saturday and Sunday. The order of the Saturday games isn't determined until late Thursday night or early Friday morning. Maybe they want to slot the officials into a time bracket instead of waiting until Friday to tell them what time they'll be working? Just a guess.

tomegun Fri Mar 25, 2011 09:41am
BNR, what happened to Sean Corbin? I saw him early in the year, but not later on. Joe Derosa may still work this weekend, but I haven't seen Corbin.

Raymond Fri Mar 25, 2011 09:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 743679)
BNR, what happened to Sean Corbin? I saw him early in the year, but not later on. Joe Derosa may still work this weekend, but I haven't seen Corbin.
He worked the ACC Tourney, Duke/Hampton in the NCAA Tourney, and an NIT game.

tomegun Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 743690)
He worked the ACC Tourney, Duke/Hampton in the NCAA Tourney, and an NIT game.
Oh, OK. I wonder how he feels physically and mentally being done already when the NBA playoffs haven't even started.

Raymond Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 743705)
Oh, OK. I wonder how he feels physically and mentally being done already when the NBA playoffs haven't even started.
I guess part of that may be affected by why he retired from the NBA. If he did so because the wear and tear and grind were getting to him then he probably feels alright.

However, if he was forced to retire then right about now he is probably frustrated and still full of energy.

tomegun Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 743730)
I guess part of that may be affected by why he retired from the NBA. If he did so because the wear and tear and grind were getting to him then he probably feels alright.

However, if he was forced to retire then right about now he is probably frustrated and still full of energy.
As far as I know, Corbin and Derosa retired on their own. They get an NBA pension and immediately become big dogs in college with much less pressure.

The_Rookie Fri Mar 25, 2011 03:29pm
[QUOTE=BadNewsRef;743478]Anaheim

UConn/SDSU: Tom O'Neil, Patrick Adams, Steve Olson
AZ/Duke: John Higgins, Tom Eades, Mike Nance

I was in the house in Anaheim with 2 Veteran officials and we agreed that Mike Nance was the Best of the Bunch...He has a very patient whistle and really allows the play to develop b4 making a call..I WANT TO LEARN TO DO THAT!

Also, we noticed that in Div I mens, there are calls made out of the PCA more often than Womens and HS...

Raymond Fri Mar 25, 2011 03:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 743819)
...Also, we noticed that in Div I mens, there are calls made out of the PCA more often than Womens and HS...
Any specific examples you want to discuss? I'm not questioning what you saw, just want to see what type of plays they were to see why it may have happened that way.

The_Rookie Fri Mar 25, 2011 04:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 743823)
Any specific examples you want to discuss? I'm not questioning what you saw, just want to see what type of plays they were to see why it may have happened that way.
Question on an unrelated topic: Have you ever attended or know anything about the DIII Super Camp held in Richmond Va??

Raymond Fri Mar 25, 2011 04:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 743836)
Question on an unrelated topic: Have you ever attended or know anything about the DIII Super Camp held in Richmond Va??
Most definitely. PM me if you want to discuss.

Nevadaref Fri Mar 25, 2011 06:21pm
John Cahill, Ed Corbett, and someone whom I don't recognize on the floor for Kansas/Richmond.
He is Terry Wymer.

Raymond Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:22pm
Alternate gets in game!!!

Gerry Pollard injured in VCU/FSU game and Bert Smith has taken his spot.

Who said alternates never get to do anything? ;)

Raymond Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by big jake (Post 744014)
Will they pick from the guys working the semis for the region finals or bring in a whole new crew?
Huh? Aren't you a D1 official on the Women's side?

kellybluemen Sat Mar 26, 2011 03:32pm
New Orleans Fla-Butler

Karl Hess
Mike Stephens
Jamie Luckie

kellybluemen Sat Mar 26, 2011 06:17pm
Airzona Ucon

Doug Showes
Doug Sirmons
Antino Petty

Raymond Sat Mar 26, 2011 06:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellybluemen (Post 744071)
Airzona Ucon

Doug Showes
Doug Sirmons
Antino Petty
Let's us know that Mr. Adams was pleased with the Butler/Pitt fouls at the end.

Nevadaref Sat Mar 26, 2011 06:43pm
And Butler is now headed back to the Final Four.

Judtech Sat Mar 26, 2011 06:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 744075)
And Butler is now headed back to the Final Four.
Obviously a homer :D

Raymond Sun Mar 27, 2011 02:05pm
Sweet 16/Elite 8
 
Haven't seen Anthony Jordan, Pat Driscoll, Gary Maxwell, Verne Harris, Jim Burr, or Dick Cartmell yet this weekend.

Gonna guess we get Driscoll, Maxwell, and Harris for Kent/UNC.

kellybluemen Sun Mar 27, 2011 03:02pm
Kansas---VCU

Ted Valentine
Tony Greene
Mike don't call me Tommy Eades

FredFan7 Sun Mar 27, 2011 04:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 743730)
I guess part of that may be affected by why he retired from the NBA. If he did so because the wear and tear and grind were getting to him then he probably feels alright.

However, if he was forced to retire then right about now he is probably frustrated and still full of energy.
DeRosa left the NBA on his own. Here's a great article about his decision to retire from the NBA and go back to college officiating.

Referee NON-Subscriber's Free Sample

APG Sun Mar 27, 2011 04:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredFan7 (Post 744327)
DeRosa left the NBA on his own. Here's a great article about his decision to retire from the NBA and go back to college officiating.

Referee NON-Subscriber's Free Sample
Thanks for posting that!

Raymond Sun Mar 27, 2011 06:31pm
All games through Regional Finals

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 743928)
Tuesday:

UNC-A/Ark-LR: Jamie Luckie, Tim Gattis*, Bo Boroski
Clem/UAB: Mike Roberts, Chris Beaver, Terry Wymer

Wednesday:

UTSA/AL St: Mike Scyphers, Frank Harvey*, Ed Hightower
VCU/USC: Mike Sanzere, Patrick Adams, Joe Derosa


* = only worked First Four (97th & 98th officials)

Thursday/Saturday
Tampa
Clem/WVU: Gerry Pollard, John Hampton, JB Caldwell
Princeton/Kent.: Pat Driscoll, Michael Irving, Larry Spaulding
UCSB/UF: Jamie Luckie, Sean Hull, Guy Pagano
Mich St/UCLA: Mike Nance, D.J. Carstensen, Raymond Styons

WVU/Kent.: Jamie Luckie, D.J. Carstensen, Gerry Pollard
UCLA/UF: Pat Driscoll, Mike Nance, Michael Irving

Denver
Morehead St/L-ville: Randy McCall, Ron Groover, Lamar Simpson
Rich/Vandy: James Barker, Bo Boroski, Les Jones
Wofford/BYU: Kelly Self, Tom Eades, Donnie Eppley
Gonz/St. John's: Scott Thornley, J.T. Orr, Tony Greene

Morehead St/Rich: Scott Thornley, Kelly Self, Randy Mccall
Gonz/BYU: Tony Greene, Les Jones, Tom Eades

Tucson
PSU/Temple: Mark Whitehead, Mike Stephens, Tim Kelly
Northern CO/SDSU: Terry Moore, Ted Valentine, Gregory Nixon
Belmont/Wisc: Darron George, Jeff Anderson, Bryan Kersey
Utah St/Kan. St: John Cahill, Michael Eggers, Scott Twardoski

Temple/SDSU: Ted Valentine, Gregory Nixon, Michael Stephens
Kan. St/Wisc: John Cahill, Bryan Kersey, Mark Whitehead


Washington DC
ODU/Butler: Mike Eades, Wally Rutecki, Ray Perone
UNC-A/Pitt: Chris Rastatter, Bret Smith, Jeb Hartness
Buck/UConn: Tim Clougherty, Jeff Clark, Michael Reed
Mizzou/Cincy: Antinio Petty, John Higgins, Terry Wymer

Butler/Pitt: Antinio Petty, John Higgins, Terry Wymer
Cincy/UConn: Mike Eades, Chris Rastatter, Michael Reed

Friday/Sunday
Charlotte
Tenn/Mich: Ed Corbett, Gary Maxwell, Paul Faia
Hampton/Duke: Verne Harris, Sean Corbin, Kevin Brill
LIU/UNC: Doug Shows, Ed Hightower, Lamont Simpson
UGA/Wash: Steve Olsen, Don Daily, Hal Lusk

Wash/UNC: Doug Shows, Don Daily, Steve Olsen
Mich/Duke: Gary Maxwell, Verne Harris, Ed Corbett

Cleveland
Villa/GMU: Mike Scyphers, Patrick Adams, Anthony Jordan
UTSA/Ohio St: Ray Natili, Bill McCarthy, Tim Nestor
Marq/Xavier: Mike Roberts, Rick Randall, John Gaffney
Indy St/Syra: Karl Hess, Mike Sanzere, Bill Ek

GMU/Ohio St: Patrick Adams, Anthony Jordan, Mike Roberts
Marq/Syra: Karl Hess, Ray Natili, Rick Randall

Tulsa
Oak/Texas: Dick Cartmell, Deron White, Dwayne Gladden
Memphis/AZ: Jim Burr, Paul Jannsenn, Terry Oglesby
Boston U./Kansas: Brian Dorsey, Bert Smith, Glenn Tuitt
Illi/UNLV: Joe Derosa, Chris Beaver, Glenn Mayborg

AZ/Texas: Jim Burr, Dick Cartmell, Paul Janssen
Illi/Kansas: Dwayne Gladden, Brian Dorsey, Joe Derosa


Chicago
FSU/TX A&M: Brian O'Connell, Tony Padila, Sean Casady
Akron/ND: Roger Ayers, Tom O'Neil, Patrick Evans
St. Peter's/Purdue: James Breeding, Joe Lindsay, Brent Hampton
VCU/G-town: Doug Sirmons, Michael Greenstein, Rick Crawford

VCU/Purdue: Roger Ayers, Brian O'Connell, Tony Padilla
FSU/ND: James Breeding, Doug Sirmons, Michael Greenstein
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 743929)
Anaheim

UConn/SDSU: Tom O'Neil, Patrick Adams, Steve Olson
AZ/Duke: John Higgins, Tom Eades, Mike Nance

AZ/UConn: Doug Shows, Doug Sirmons, Antinio Petty

New Orleans

BYU/UF: Bryan Kersey, Mike Roberts, Brian Dorsey
Butler/Wisc: Les Jones, Michael Reed, Don Dailey

Butler/UF: Jamie Luckie, Karl Hess, Michael Stephens

San Antonio

Rich/Kansas: John Cahill, Ed Corbett, Terry Wymer
VCU/FSU: James Breeding, Gerry Pollard (Bert Smith), Lamar Simpson

VCU/Kansas: Ted Valentine, Tony Greene, Mike Eades


Newark

Marq/UNC: Mark Whitehead, Tony Padilla, Joe Derosa
Kent/OSU: Roger Ayers, Brian O'Connell, Scott Thornley

Kent/UNC: Pat Driscoll, Verne Harris, Randy Mccall

eyezen Sun Mar 27, 2011 07:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 744346)
All games through Regional Finals


Kent/UNC: Pat Driscoll, Verne Harris, Dick Cartmell

I'm 99% sure that was Randy McCall

kellybluemen Sun Mar 27, 2011 08:39pm
Final 4 Officials???

T Eades
Cahill
Greene
John Higgins
Showes
Valentine
Stephens
Driscol
Ayers
O Petty

Raymond Sun Mar 27, 2011 09:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyezen (Post 744367)
I'm 99% sure that was Randy McCall
You are correct sir.

biz Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellybluemen (Post 744381)
Final 4 Officials???

T Eades
Cahill
Greene
John Higgins
Showes
Valentine
Stephens
Driscol
Ayers
O Petty
I would be pretty surprised if Ed Corbett wasn't included. I would expect to see Jamie Luckie as well for his first Final Four assignment.

Jay R Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by biz (Post 744485)
I would be pretty surprised if Ed Corbett wasn't included. I would expect to see Jamie Luckie as well for his first Final Four assignment.
Jamie Luckie did the Final Four last year.

biz Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:58am
My fault you're right Luckie worked a semi-final last year. Well I wouldn't be surprised to see him again this year!

M&M Guy Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:01am
Sometimes it doesn't hurt to be Luckie in this avocation.

kellybluemen Mon Mar 28, 2011 02:06pm
Final Four Zebras?
 
Who is your choice to work on Saturday and Monday? Adams said he wanted some new blood to work but it looks like the same ones except for Higgins and Donato will be working. Maybe Burr also???

NCHSAA Mon Mar 28, 2011 02:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellybluemen (Post 744563)
Who is your choice to work on Saturday and Monday? Adams said he wanted some new blood to work but it looks like the same ones except for Higgins and Donato will be working. Maybe Burr also???
I wouldn't think Burr would, but who knows

Raymond Mon Mar 28, 2011 02:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellybluemen (Post 744563)
Who is your choice to work on Saturday and Monday? Adams said he wanted some new blood to work but it looks like the same ones except for Higgins and Donato will be working. Maybe Burr also???
Burr? He didn't make it to the Sweet 16.

Mark Padgett Mon Mar 28, 2011 02:39pm
I'd like to see Earl Strom, Jake O'Donnell and me. Then let one of those coaches mouth off. :cool:

Jurassic Referee Mon Mar 28, 2011 02:59pm
What's with the morbid fascination of who's gonna work next weekend?

Big Jake disappears along with his obsession of who's gonna work (not to mention deleting his posting history on the way out the door at the same time :D).

Kellyblueman shows up on the exact same day as big jake's demise and we're into the same interminable discussion once again.

Why not just have a poll and be done with it?

Raymond Mon Mar 28, 2011 03:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 744590)
What's with the morbid fascination of who's gonna work next weekend?

Big Jake disappears along with his obsession of who's gonna work (not to mention deleting his posting history on the way out the door at the same time :D).

Kellyblueman shows up on the exact same day as big jake's demise and we're into the same interminable discussion once again.

Why not just have a poll and be done with it?
What!!! big jake is gone? :eek: Curtis Shaw must have clamped down on his officials.

Adam Mon Mar 28, 2011 03:22pm
sniff

Jurassic Referee Mon Mar 28, 2011 03:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 744591)
What!!! big jake is gone? :eek: Curtis Shaw must have clamped down on his officials.
Yup, big jake has disappeared back into the murk and miasma from whence he came, and while doing so deleted every post that he had ever made except for one that was locked and undeleatable and this particular thread starter. Makes you kinda wonder why ol' jake didn't delete this one either.

Unless kellyblueman who just showed up as jake went out the door is son-of-jake. :eek:

Naw, that's too far-fetched for even my warped l'il mind. :D

BktBallRef Mon Mar 28, 2011 03:57pm
Maybe that man-crush that Big Jake has on Mike Stuart finally worked out for him! :D

grunewar Mon Mar 28, 2011 04:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 744590)
Big Jake disappears along with his obsession of who's gonna work (not to mention deleting his posting history on the way out the door at the same time :D).
First Oldschool, now Big Jake? Man, if we lose The Eagle, I don't know what I'll do........but, I'd sure like to try and find out! ;)

Welpe Mon Mar 28, 2011 06:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 744597)
Yup, big jake has disappeared back into the murk and miasma from whence he came, and while doing so deleted every post that he had ever made except for one that was locked and undeleatable and this particular thread starter. Makes you kinda wonder why ol' jake didn't delete this one either.
So "Big Jake", claimed last month to officiate in the OVC and yet he creates a post in December asking how one would get into the OVC....oh what a tangled web we weave...

But who knows, maybe the OVC called and told him to can his account. It could happen...:cool:

Welpe Mon Mar 28, 2011 06:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 744640)
First Oldschool, now Big Jake? Man, if we lose The Eagle, I don't know what I'll do........but, I'd sure like to try and find out! ;)
They say these things come in threes...

refereefollower Tue Mar 29, 2011 08:18am
I'll say Driscoll, Valentine, Ayers, J Higgins, Harris, Shows, Cahill, Corbett, Luckie, Greene will be in Houston this weekend.

big jake Tue Mar 29, 2011 09:47am
Big jake might be on his way to Houston, you never know where this dude might show up!

Raymond Tue Mar 29, 2011 09:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by big jake (Post 744866)
Big jake might be on his way to Houston, you never know where this dude might show up!
I'm waiting for him to show up at a camp next to Curtis Shaw.

kellybluemen Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:02am
Guys,

Please keep me out of your little deal, I am just a new official and a fan of NCAA basketball, I am not affiliated with anyone on this site. Thank you


Kellybluemen

Multiple Sports Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:41am
Not bad but how about this
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by refereefollower (Post 744830)
I'll say Driscoll, Valentine, Ayers, J Higgins, Harris, Shows, Cahill, Corbett, Luckie, Greene will be in Houston this weekend.
Padgett / Bainsey / Bad News Ref / Snagwells / Jurassic Ref / Bkt Ball Ref...

need four more !!!!!!


I am only worthy of being the alternate with this crew !!!!!!!!

Raymond Tue Mar 29, 2011 01:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellybluemen (Post 744874)
Guys,

Please keep me out of your little deal, I am just a new official and a fan of NCAA basketball, I am not affiliated with anyone on this site. Thank you


Kellybluemen
Once you hit transmit that very first time you became part of all and any ordeals. Too late now.

tref Tue Mar 29, 2011 01:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multiple Sports (Post 744900)
Padgett / Bainsey / Bad News Ref / Snagwells / Jurassic Ref / Bkt Ball Ref...

need four more !!!!!!


I am only worthy of being the alternate with this crew !!!!!!!!
I'm down to carry some bags & sit in on pregame!!

Multiple Sports Tue Mar 29, 2011 06:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellybluemen (Post 744874)
Guys,

Please keep me out of your little deal, I am just a new official and a fan of NCAA basketball, I am not affiliated with anyone on this site. Thank you


Kellybluemen
Welcome to the 'hood.... It is too late now!!!!!!!!:D:D:D

kellybluemen Tue Mar 29, 2011 07:24pm
I see Ed Corbett is working the NIT first game tonight.

refereefollower Tue Mar 29, 2011 07:51pm
With Corbett working tonight, that would lead me to believe he will not be in Houston

Adam Tue Mar 29, 2011 08:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by refereefollower (Post 745057)
With Corbett working tonight, that would lead me to believe he will not be in Houston
First game in Houston is Saturday. Four days isn't enough rest?

Nevadaref Tue Mar 29, 2011 08:30pm
NIT semi-final crews
 
Wichita St. v. Washington St.: Corbett, Lindsay, Corbin

Alabama v. Colorado: Kersey, Eades, Prater

refereefollower Tue Mar 29, 2011 08:41pm
snagwells,

4 days is plenty of rest, but I thought there was a rule that if you work the NIT final four, you did not work the NCAA final four, but I could be wrong with the new national coordinator.

Adam Tue Mar 29, 2011 08:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by refereefollower (Post 745065)
snagwells,

4 days is plenty of rest, but I thought there was a rule that if you work the NIT final four, you did not work the NCAA final four, but I could be wrong with the new national coordinator.
I think it's more about not working the days immediately prior, but I could be wrong as well.

Nevadaref Tue Mar 29, 2011 08:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by refereefollower (Post 745065)
snagwells,

4 days is plenty of rest, but I thought there was a rule that if you work the NIT final four, you did not work the NCAA final four, but I could be wrong with the new national coordinator.
Here is the official policy straight from the NCAA championship handbook.


2011 NCAA Division I Men’s Basketball Championship Officiating Policies


"No official shall be assigned to work any session unless the official agrees to refrain from entering into any officiating commitment the day before the tournament game date. For the Final Four, each official shall agree not to accept any officiating assignment within five days of the national semifinals for reasons of health and safety. For all rounds, the official must also agree to be at the site of the game by 9 p.m. local time the day before the competition. Each official must contact the tournament manager immediately upon arrival or, if any unforeseen delays are encountered, notify the tournament manager."

Nevadaref Tue Mar 29, 2011 08:57pm
Since these Tuesday NIT semi-final games are within five days of Saturday's NCAA semi-final games, we can say that anyone who works today will not be part of the ten officials selected for the NCAA Final Four.

refereefollower Tue Mar 29, 2011 09:06pm
Thanks for confirming what I was thinking Nevadaref

Adam Tue Mar 29, 2011 09:38pm
We were both right, I couldn't remember how many days were required.

Rich Wed Mar 30, 2011 06:47am
"A source said the 10 preselected officials with Final Four assignments are:

John Cahill
Pat Driscoll
Verne Harris
John Higgins
Les Jones
Jamie Luckie
Antinio Petty
Doug Shows
Michael Stephens
Mark Whitehead"

This from a blog post ripping Jim Burr:

Source: Burr will not work Final Four - CBSSports.com

mbyron Wed Mar 30, 2011 07:15am
What?!? Where's Teddy V?

Raymond Wed Mar 30, 2011 07:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 745137)
"A source said the 10 preselected officials with Final Four assignments are:

John Cahill
Pat Driscoll
Verne Harris
John Higgins
Les Jones
Jamie Luckie
Antinio Petty
Doug Shows
Michael Stephens
Mark Whitehead"

This from a blog post ripping Jim Burr:

Source: Burr will not work Final Four - CBSSports.com
If true, I'm guessing Petty will be the alternate.

And considering Burr didn't work the 2nd weekend why is CBSSports.com reporting Burr's absense from the Final Four as some kind of breaking news? :rolleyes:

Raymond Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 745137)
"A source said the 10 preselected officials with Final Four assignments are:

John Cahill
Pat Driscoll
Verne Harris
John Higgins
Les Jones
Jamie Luckie
Antinio Petty
Doug Shows
Michael Stephens
Mark Whitehead"

This from a blog post ripping Jim Burr:

Source: Burr will not work Final Four - CBSSports.com
The "source" must have been someone with access to the NCAA Central Hub. This is in fact the list of officials who will be working the Final Four. Mark Whitehead's 2nd Final Four, his first being way back in 1999. I doubt any official has had a gap like that before. Good on him.

tjones1 Wed Mar 30, 2011 02:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 745137)
"A source said the 10 preselected officials with Final Four assignments are:

John Cahill
Pat Driscoll
Verne Harris
John Higgins
Les Jones
Jamie Luckie
Antinio Petty
Doug Shows
Michael Stephens
Mark Whitehead"

This from a blog post ripping Jim Burr:

Source: Burr will not work Final Four - CBSSports.com
Those are correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 745159)
What?!? Where's Teddy V?
He worked the National Championship last year, I believe.

Raymond Wed Mar 30, 2011 02:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjones1 (Post 745266)
Those are correct.



...
This is what we would call an "echo" whistle. :cool:

rulesmaven Wed Mar 30, 2011 02:37pm
According to yahoo sports, at least, the NCAA itself revealed the 10 who drew the assignments; the article implies it was done to increase transparency in light of the public discussion of officiating in the last few weeks. Guys in stripes have own bracket - College Basketball - Rivals.com

The weirdest part of the article is this:

"Game assignments for the first semifinal will be announced an hour before tip-off of that game. Assignments for the second semifinal will be announced at halftime of the first game, and the officials for the national championship game will be announced an hour before that contest. No official works more than one game during the weekend."

Once the crew gets announced for the second semi-final at halftime of the first, you'd have to be pretty stupid not to be able to figure out who the crew for the final will be. Isn't it a pretty signficant departure for the NCAA to have the names of the championship officials out there in the public for 48 hours? I know that traditionally, they are not even supposed to be on site until after the semis. Though it's not always a particularly closely guarded secret, I thought they were worried about public perception that coaches would coach to a particular official or crazy conspiracy theories about vegas dudes with paper bags of money.

Raymond Wed Mar 30, 2011 02:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rulesmaven (Post 745274)
...
..."Game assignments for the first semifinal will be announced an hour before tip-off of that game. Assignments for the second semifinal will be announced at halftime of the first game, and the officials for the national championship game will be announced an hour before that contest. No official works more than one game during the weekend."
...

That's the actual text from the announcement that John Adams posted on the NCAA Central Hub, the article is quoting it word-for-word.

26 Year Gap Wed Mar 30, 2011 02:59pm
So, it appears that one guy will be the "alternate". Unless, someone works a semi and the final.

Raymond Wed Mar 30, 2011 03:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 745278)
So, it appears that one guy will be the "alternate". Unless, someone works a semi and the final.
Each official is only assigned one game. And I'm pretty sure the officials who work Saturday have to vacate the venue before Monday's game. You work then you go home. The alternate sticks around for all 3 games.

Judtech Wed Mar 30, 2011 05:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rulesmaven (Post 745274)
According to yahoo sports, at least, the NCAA itself revealed the 10 who drew the assignments; the article implies it was done to increase transparency in light of the public discussion of officiating in the last few weeks. Guys in stripes have own bracket - College Basketball - Rivals.com

The weirdest part of the article is this:

"Game assignments for the first semifinal will be announced an hour before tip-off of that game. Assignments for the second semifinal will be announced at halftime of the first game, and the officials for the national championship game will be announced an hour before that contest. No official works more than one game during the weekend."

Once the crew gets announced for the second semi-final at halftime of the first, you'd have to be pretty stupid not to be able to figure out who the crew for the final will be. Isn't it a pretty signficant departure for the NCAA to have the names of the championship officials out there in the public for 48 hours? I know that traditionally, they are not even supposed to be on site until after the semis. Though it's not always a particularly closely guarded secret, I thought they were worried about public perception that coaches would coach to a particular official or crazy conspiracy theories about vegas dudes with paper bags of money.
Your Vegas theory is actually pretty accurate. Knowing who the officials are for a game of this level could shift the line significantly. I have 'friends' in the 'gaming industry' and this has been a concern for them. It is not as important during "regular" games because the amount of money isn't as significant as the money on the Final Four games. Ironically, he said the same can not be said about the Super Bowl. Partly b/c the money differential between a slate of regular season games versus "The Big Game" is not that large. I would hazard a guess that knowing the officials working the weekend but not which game would not impact the line that much.
Take it for what it is worth! So far this tournament has been financially advantageous for me!! The same can not be said about my bracket LOL

rulesmaven Wed Mar 30, 2011 05:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 745279)
Each official is only assigned one game. And I'm pretty sure the officials who work Saturday have to vacate the venue before Monday's game. You work then you go home. The alternate sticks around for all 3 games.
Interesting -- the officials for the first semi used to be allowed two tickets to the second semi, and all of the officials working the semis used to be allowed two tickets for the final if they wanted them. But, of course, they had to pay their own way and didn't get per diem other than for the work day. Not sure many ever did it, but I don't know.

rulesmaven Wed Mar 30, 2011 05:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 745276)
That's the actual text from the announcement that John Adams posted on the NCAA Central Hub, the article is quoting it word-for-word.
That's really bizarre. Does he not understand that by releasing the names of the 10 officials, everyone in the world will know the three game officials for Monday on Saturday? Why the charade of waiting until an hour before game time on Monday to announce?

canuckrefguy Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:28pm
Couple first timers in Petty and Stephens. Nice to see some new blood.

As for all the Burr-bashing. In the infamous Rutgers game - it was neither Burr nor Tim Higgins that were the primary official in what I think are the biggest f-ups in the dying minutes of that game: (1) the obvious rebounding foul that was passed on (C on the play was up above the 3pt line when the foul occurred off a missed FT), but positioned way too high IMO), and another foul on the hail mary pass at the end where the Rutgers guy is basically knocked down. Earl Walton was the closest official on both those plays - but Higgins and Burr got all the vitriol. Not defending any of them - but Walton kind of got off scott-free in the court of public opinion IMO.

APG Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by canuckrefguy (Post 745378)
Couple first timers in Petty and Stephens. Nice to see some new blood.

As for all the Burr-bashing. In the infamous Rutgers game - it was neither Burr nor Tim Higgins that were the primary official in what I think are the biggest f-ups in the dying minutes of that game: (1) the obvious rebounding foul that was passed on (C on the play was up above the 3pt line when the foul occurred off a missed FT), but positioned way too high IMO), and another foul on the hail mary pass at the end where the Rutgers guy is basically knocked down. Earl Walton was the closest official on both those plays - but Higgins and Burr got all the vitriol. Not defending any of them - but Walton kind of got off scott-free in the court of public opinion IMO.
I know at least on the half court pass, the initial lead official (not sure if it was Higgins or Burr), took himself out of position to help on this play by being in the middle of the paint for some reason. The hail mary could be disputed by some...the missed out of bounds call was concrete and can not be argued by anyone hence the reason those two seemed to have gotten it worse in the "court of public opinion."

Raymond Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by canuckrefguy (Post 745378)
... and another foul on the hail mary pass at the end where the Rutgers guy is basically knocked down. Earl Walton was the closest official on both those plays - but Higgins and Burr got all the vitriol. Not defending any of them - but Walton kind of got off scott-free in the court of public opinion IMO.
Burr should have positioned himself to be able to officiate the hail mary. Walton was where he was supposed be on the throw-in.

canuckrefguy Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 745385)
I know at least on the half court pass, the initial lead official (not sure if it was Higgins or Burr), took himself out of position to help on this play by being in the middle of the paint for some reason. The hail mary could be disputed by some...the missed out of bounds call was concrete and can not be argued by anyone hence the reason those two seemed to have gotten it worse in the "court of public opinion."
Agree to a certain extent - but the lead would have been straightlined. Walton was level with the play on the sideline and had a wide-open view.

The two no-calls were the RARE cases where the announcers dumped all over the officials - and I agreed with them. The OOB was just the icing on the cake, IMO. 1.6 sec left would have set up an iffy scoring chance at best for Rutgers (the TI would have been in the backcourt) - but those two non-calls on fouls were huge.

canuckrefguy Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:06pm
For reference:
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/eKw6jgZVONI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

APG Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by canuckrefguy (Post 745389)
Agree to a certain extent - but the lead would have been straightlined. Walton was level with the play on the sideline and had a wide-open view.

The two no-calls were the RARE cases where the announcers dumped all over the officials - and I agreed with them. The OOB was just the icing on the cake, IMO. 1.6 sec left would have set up an iffy scoring chance at best for Rutgers (the TI would have been in the backcourt) - but those two non-calls on fouls were huge.
I thought the first no call on the dribble drive with 12 seconds left was a blatant foul and surprised it wasn't called. The halfcourt toss...the center was in great position to see the play...I will admit I thought it was a foul. Still, some could defend some of the judgment calls (which is what happened when we first discussed this ending). No one can defend missing a blatant out of bounds call. And that missing that call gave the appearance that the two officials who could have called the violation did not officiate until the end and assumed the game was over.


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