Should I have "T"ed this?

[JRutledge]

No, he showed frustration to himself. And it would not matter to me how high the ball got away, I am still giving a player that is mad with himself and not me a longer rope or consideration. I also do not give a darn what the "other fans" think. If they want to do my job, get a whistle and get your butt out there and then you can decide what I do on the court. Until then, a player that is upset with themselves over a bad play is always going to get away with much more than if they are upset with me or my officiating partners.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

No, he showed frustration to himself. And it would not matter to me how high the ball got away, I am still giving a player that is mad with himself and not me a longer rope or consideration. I also do not give a darn what the "other fans" think. If they want to do my job, get a whistle and get your butt out there and then you can decide what I do on the court. Until then, a player that is upset with themselves over a bad play is always going to get away with much more than if they are upset with me or my officiating partners.

Same no-call if he threw or kicked the ball into the stands out of frustration at himself?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Same no-call if he threw or kicked the ball into the stands out of frustration at himself?

If your suggestion is that he must do something over the top to get a T, then you would be wrong. I will give a T to a kid if they do not curse and they do not directly say something to me under the right circumstances if their actions are in frustration with me or an opponent. It is not about the specific actions, it is about whom they direct it towards.

Peace

[Terrapins Fan]

It did fly past his hands and he caught it on the way down.

I didn't want a bad call making the difference in the game.

I called 7 "T"s in 11 games at the end of the season, my partners called another 4 and I thought " do I really have to call this?" I didn't think it was required by rule, like the "T" for removing the shirt, so I passed and they still weren't happy with me....

[DesMoines]

+1 JRut.

Typical exchange for me: "What did he say??" Nothing. He was showing (or made) a disrespectful and unsporting attitude (or display) toward an official (or a call).

I don't put up with much... especially from Freshmen and Sophomores.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

It did fly past his hands and he caught it on the way down.

I didn't want a bad call making the difference in the game.

I called 7 "T"s in 11 games at the end of the season, my partners called another 4 and I thought " do I really have to call this?" I didn't think it was required by rule, like the "T" for removing the shirt, so I passed and they still weren't happy with me....

If you are always counting how many Ts and you are concerned whether or not you are calling too many, that is not a good place to be. What happened in a previous game or games has NO bearing on what is happening in the present game. Probably not something I would call a T on, but I would not be dwelling on the season's statistics while deciding.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

I would not be dwelling on the season's statistics while deciding.

I keep forgetting. Is it better if we call more technical fouls, or fewer technical fouls. I can't find it in my manual.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I keep forgetting. Is it better if we call more technical fouls, or fewer technical fouls. I can't find it in my manual.

How about "It is totally irrelevant to the situation at hand that he called 7 techs in the last 4 games"? Does that clear it up for you?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

If you are always counting how many Ts and you are concerned whether or not you are calling too many, that is not a good place to be. What happened in a previous game or games has NO bearing on what is happening in the present game. Probably not something I would call a T on, but I would not be dwelling on the season's statistics while deciding.

Well said. There should be a permanent POE in the rule book every year that states "Just call the damn game!"

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

If you are always counting how many Ts and you are concerned whether or not you are calling too many, that is not a good place to be. What happened in a previous game or games has NO bearing on what is happening in the present game. Probably not something I would call a T on, but I would not be dwelling on the season's statistics while deciding.

I'll admit, I keep up with my T's (but, I haven't been around as long as some of you and maybe this will stop someday). I keep them in my log and annual game report (for taxes, plus learning).

Here's how I have used mine before.

This year I gave the same player two - T's and ejected him. I told the Rec league it was the first time I've ever done that.

Last year I T'd and ejected a coach and tossed a fan in the same game. Again, I wrote my report to the league and told them it was a first for me.

Important? Maybe not. But to a Rec League Commissioner, who knows me and my demeanor very well, who might be deciding on a punishment or enforcement, to say I have reffed x-hundreds of games and this is the first time I've ever given two-T's to one player or tossed a coach/fan may just show them how unusual this is and get my point across.

In filing my HS reports, I just file em.

Let the beatings commence.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

It did fly past his hands and he caught it on the way down.

I didn't want a bad call making the difference in the game.

I called 7 "T"s in 11 games at the end of the season, my partners called another 4 and I thought " do I really have to call this?" I didn't think it was required by rule, like the "T" for removing the shirt, so I passed and they still weren't happy with me....

Bad call? Who said this is a bad call...the rule book says it is an technical foul for unsporting behavior. Not usporting towards an officials! The player didn't have to slam the ball, if you whack him, it is all on the player. He is so mad at his team, that is up 3 points, that he has to slam the ball...come on man.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Bad call? Who said this is a bad call...the rule book says it is an technical foul for unsporting behavior. Not usporting towards an officials! The player didn't have to slam the ball, if you whack him, it is all on the player. He is so mad at his team, that is up 3 points, that he has to slam the ball...come on man.

Where?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Where?

10-4-1: This includes, but is not limited to, acts of conduct.......

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If your suggestion is that he must do something over the top to get a T, then you would be wrong. I will give a T to a kid if they do not curse and they do not directly say something to me under the right circumstances if their actions are in frustration with me or an opponent. It is not about the specific actions, it is about whom they direct it towards.

You'd really let a player kick the ball into the rafters if you thought he was just frustrated at himself?

I know technical fouls are always judgmental in nature, but that would be way over my personal line. That's taking it way too far imo...without even getting into the "delaying the game" aspect. If you let one player do that, you're gonna have to let all of 'em do it. Just not a good idea imo.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You'd really let a player kick the ball into the rafters if you thought he was just frustrated at himself?

Yes, that is what I said.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I know technical fouls are always judgmental in nature, but that would be way over my personal line. That's taking it way too far imo...without even getting into the "delaying the game" aspect. If you let one player do that, you're gonna have to let all of 'em do it. Just not a good idea imo.

You added the "kicking" part to this. I was talking in general about a kid showing frustration with themselves or a teammate. My point was that a kid could do none of those things and get a T from me if they say something or do something to show frustration with me, a fellow official or an opponent. And I have never seen a kid in any game I have ever officiated kick the ball into the stands (or even watching) to show any level of frustration towards anyone, including themselves. Now if that happens it would be addressed, but we are talking about a kid bouncing the ball and that is something I have seen in many forms over the years. I will worry about your example when a kid does that in a game.

Peace