It's almost as if something told them the game was over. I'd stick with that, but I heard the live radio call of that play this morning, and I couldn't hear any horn that would indicate that was the case.

After St. John's steals the ball Walton starts running towards SJ's frontcourt but takes his eyes off the player and looks at the clock. When he looks back the player is already OOB and in the midst chucking the ball up in the air. I don't think Earl knew what the hell was going on at that point. He's probably thinking "I hope someone blew a whistle" :eek:

The perfect storm, it seems, for really good officials to miss a seemingly easy call.

That may be what he did but in doing so he took his eyes off THE play in HIS PCA....not usually a good idea.

Not saying it was. Just noting another contributary action to what went wrong.

Who cares about the darn travel? That pales in comparison to the out of bounds call that does not take an issue of when the player might have controlled the ball. We miss travels all the time. We should not miss a player stepping on the line ever that clearly. Now was that a mistake? Of course it was, but I can get over a missed travel as I am sure there were other plays during that game we could argue was a travel, but can we miss an out of bounds? Heck no. We cannot even agree when the player had the darn ball. But we know the player stepped on the line.

Peace

Okay, I think I finally understand the source of our disagreement. You think that the "travel" was close. And I think that the "travel" was beyond obvious.

I'm just glad that I think I understand your argument now.

The bottom line is this -- you CANNOT miss impact plays that can possibly alter the outcome of a game -- at any level.

Burr and Higgins are old-school guys and I'm sure they just chalked it up to either "I didn't see it" or they had the clock at 00.0, because Burr walked off like nothing even happened. . .

If they were going to call a travel, it would've been around 2.1, but either way, SOMETHING needed to be called and you can't miss obvious plays.

That, first and foremost, for all of us who wear stripes, trumps everything.

I feel bad for Walton out of all of them, because I'm sure he's going to be put up as the "Lee Harvey Oswald" in this mess that if Burr didn't pick it up, then Higgins should.

Nuff said, pencils down, game over.

It was G'town vs. Villanova and it was not an NCAA tournament game.
It was a Big East game.

Fixed it for ya.:D

Except that 2 guys would have at least had the LED in their periphery, which is harder to miss than a travel.

Does anybody have a foul on the St John's player during the rebounding action after the free throws? It looks like one to me.

The other "missed" foul was a good no call in my opinion.

Ditto. :P

Interesting story came out in the NY Post this afternoon. According to their sources, the Big East told the crew to either step way from the tournament or they'd do it for them.

Jim Burr, Tim Higgins, Earl Watson asked to step aside as referees by Big East Conference - NYPOST.com

And we may never know whether this is true or not.

I can see Gene Steratore making it far in the dance.

Well, considering Earl Watson is/was an NBA player out of UCLA and not an official, who knows? :rolleyes:

Actually if you need to understand something, then you have not been listening to what I have been saying at all. Travels are always judgment calls and can be debated. You cannot easily debate a foot on the line so clearly out of bounds like this one.

If you think the travel was obvious, what tape were you looking at?

Peace

Agree with all of the above.

My somewhat educated guess as to what happened is the crew was tired after working a close, competitive, Big East post season game. When they saw St. Johns come up with the loose ball after the long inbound pass they likely exhaled, lost mental focus for a second, and before they knew it the kid did something goofy.

Oh shhhh..... there's time on the clock, he's clearly out of bounds, and .......nobody has a whistle.

I'm not gonna personally attack anyone and that crew has done more in officiating than I can even hope to right now BUT they had a mental lapse at a critical time on a significant stage. And IMHO it's likely was due to fatigue and their age doesnt help with that. Burr and Higgins both should have had an OOB there. PERIOD. All of us have missed calls and had mental lapses and all of us know this increases when you are fatigued.

I actually got on talk radio today about this today and my three points were:

1) Mike Rice is a good coach (IMSBO) and went above and beyond to NOT blame the officials.

2) As a basketball official the only thing I'm going to question is the OOB. It's the most difficult sport to officiate, there's a lot of judgement, etc. but to miss the OOB there is an inexcusable moment for that crew and not a good moment for the craft.

3) Younger officials need to be brought up into the big time mix a little/lot more. Because I do think that there are SOME older officials who are still getting a full schedule of the highest level of ball when they should probably be getting a few more nights off.

JMO

+1 ^ We've all made mistakes. We've all had bad games. It doesn't mean we are bad officials. Fortunately, most of us will not have those mistakes analyzed, re-analyzed, second-guessed & criticized nearly to the extent that these guys have experienced in the past few days. The down side of course, is that "Don Denkinger Syndrome" could kick in. And that would be a shame. And this, from a Royals fan.

You can't have both, when he travelled, he was OB, I agree with Jeff. travels can be open to scrutiny, OB is OB.

Can agree on travel call from Walton.......

Why is it Burr's line? Not familar with NCAA PCA, isn't it new trail's (Higgin's)?

Go back and look at the pictures and ask Rut for help in telling those two apart. Burr, apparently, IS the new trail, although he is not visible in the video.

When the play started (b/c throw-in by Rutgers) Burr was the new lead 94' away in the frontcourt under the basket. In the video shown from St. John's frontcourt you will see him running to get over to the sideline from the paint after the pass is stolen. Higgins is in front of St. John's bench along the sideline.

If this has already been discussed I missed it so...

The player with the ball who appeared to travel and step OOB was in the process of chucking the ball while stepping OOB.

Let's say the whistle blew on the step OOB while he was in the process of chucking the ball into the air. Anything for the chuck? DOG?

Let's say you stuck him for DoG. How would you justify it in the rules?

In reading NFHS 3-47 now I'm not sure I can give him a DOG warning.

Are you saying you would stick him for unsporting act? Or is it nothing? Wouldn't it be like a kid who dunks right after a travel call ie judgment call?

Nah, I wouldn't do either. There is a possibility of a T if his actions actually delay the game, but if they'd called this travel, they would have been looking at the monitor to determine the proper time left on the clock.

No way I'd go unsporting, either, unless he's looking at me ask for the ball and then throws it away.

On this play, it's nothing.

And if your writing in some of your previous posts in this thread had been one-tenth as clear as the above, you wouldn't have had multiple asking you what the hell you were talking about.

Already addressed by John Adams in ESPN article. Even it there had been a whistle the player thought game was over so no T for action.

It seems like you are one of the only people having a problem understanding my point on this play. Many have read and either agreed or disagreed with my point and were not trying to figure out what I was saying. Maybe your lack of understanding is and example of not understanding of the mechanics or rules very well. I do not know and will not try to guess. I think you made your mind up and you only wanted to debate why the travel was not called.

Peace

Yeah, Rut, your writing is always clear, coherent, and logically consistent.

Take it for what it's worth, but I was able to understand Rut's initial point.

I did not say it was always wonderful at all times. This is an internet forum, not a Master's Thesis or PhD Dissertation writing center. I think you made your mind up and I differing opinion was not what you wanted to hear. I also do not think you read every response from me. Do not blame that on me when you could not seem to understand others that made the same point as well. Again, there were others that debate with me and others on the points of the play, not how we wrote our responses. If you did not truly understand then you would have said what you did not understand. This is not my first rodeo here. ;)

Peace

I think the content is more important than the delivery, and that's really all that needs to be judged.

But that's just me......:)

You do rodeo, too?

I do last longer than 8 seconds. ;)

Peace

HaHa! I stand corrected!!

A positive finish for an officiating crew:

ACC officials supervisor praises Kersey, crew - Teel time - dailypress.com

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kTMPZIGw8g4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That's about as close as it gets...I've only seen one other time in an NBA game where replay was that close!

That's what you call.....

< puts on sunglasses >

officiating until the last second.

YYYEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Until the last second you say...ironic given the thread. ;)

I can't believe the officials didn't let the players decide this game!:cool:
Its sad that the players have the game taken away from them b/c of some stupid rule and the use of technology.
(Yes, I actually heard that argument today!)

I have nothing more to say. Just wanted to be a part of a post with 250 replies:)

Thanks to stiffler for the redirect....

I actually think the OOB is the least of their concerns in the last couple minutes of that game.

Just goes to show you that even the very best f-up too.

That was the closest last second shot I've ever seen, plus it really looked good in real time. Ouch!

Y U.P. Me too. I just don't know what I would rule in real-time.

What went through my mind when I saw this clip was that I bet NCAA officials across the land, unfortunately, had a very crisp pre-game that particularly dealt with officiating until the end.

Can you imagine a second crew not working til the last buzzer?

Also, not that it would have mattered had the attempt been released in time, but I see the slot signalling a three. When I paused the clip, the left foot is definitely crossing the inner-most 3-point arc.

Only 2 points were credited initially.

Ok, gotcha.

The camera zoomed in, so I didn't see if the C signalled a made 3 or not.

He signalled the attempt, so if we assume that he signalled a touchdown, and the table only awarded 2, then obviously we need CHSeagle working the tournament because he knows proper procedure. :D

Bryan Kersey had the initial call, as well as the video review. He had the shot but not the red backboard light, based on his stance/view. Using the buzzer alone makes it a difficult call.

Y.U.P. That would have been ugly. At least the Big East deal didn't cost somebody a tournament bid, and pretty much died since the crew didn't work again and St Johns got beat the next game.

Look at the still above your post. Bryan is signalling that it is a "2".

I can buy that, though I can't see for certain that he's got just 2 fingers.

And why I like the mechanic of signalling the 2 clearly down to the floor if ruling that the shot is not a 3.

I am not sure any of us have the right to criticize an official with Tim's resume. We should be supportive of our fraternity.

Remember - We get all our calls right from the stands.

Just because an official has been at it a long time doesn't mean he's immune to criticism...especially on a blown call this bad.

I have no problem with the criticism, I just do not like the way we all are critical. This should be a learning situation for all of us. Do not assume anything and unfortunately I think this official did. He is not the only one that made such a mistake and certainly will not be the last one for sure.

Peace

Agreed. Figure out why he missed it, or what contributed, and strive to avoid it.

Exactly