AP or OOB

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

From a pick-up game:

A1 and B1 are going after a loose ball. Both players have their hands on the ball,but you have not yet decided it warrants a held ball call. A1 steps on the line. OOB to B (as A1 caused the ball to be OOB) or AP (b/c there was joint possession at the time the ball attained OOB status).

Does rule set matter?

No, the rule set doesn't matter.

The OOB "power" doesn't transfer from A1 to the ball and then to B1.

Where I get this play often is after a shot attempt and the rebound goes towards the end line. A4 and B4 both go for the ball and I'd say a dozen times per year, one of the players touches the end line or beyond while touching the ball in an attempt to gain full control - all the while their opponent is doing the same thing, but inbounds.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

No, the rule set doesn't matter.

The OOB "power" doesn't transfer from A1 to the ball and then to B1.

Where I get this play often is after a shot attempt and the rebound goes towards the end line. A4 and B4 both go for the ball and I'd say a dozen times per year, one of the players touches the end line or beyond while touching the ball in an attempt to gain full control - all the while their opponent is doing the same thing, but inbounds.

You should know that the rule set matters.

Fiba rules:

23.2.3 If a player moves to out-of-bounds or to his backcourt during a held ball, a jump ball situation occurs.

What they mean for "during" is precisely the situation you are describing.

Ciao

[JugglingReferee]

Yes, eg-i, you're right.

But when answering these guys, I assume these guys don't want a FIBA ruling. LOL

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Yes, eg-i, you're right.

But when answering these guys, I assume these guys don't want a FIBA ruling. LOL

They don't know what they're missing.

Ciao

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Yes, eg-i, you're right.

But when answering these guys, I assume these guys don't want a FIBA ruling. LOL

How can he be right? He said "during a held ball". The situation that you described occurred before a held ball("while touching the ball in an attempt to gain full control"...in your words) . They're completely different situations, aren't they?

Pizza and lasagna...

[just another ref]

Nothing happens during a held ball. When a held ball happens, the ball is dead.

[so cal lurker]

Thx all . . . am I gonna mention FIBA at the gym? . . . nah, don't think so . . . (well, maybe to the other rule geek . . .)

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

How can he be right? He said "during a held ball". The situation that you described occurred before a held ball("while touching the ball in an attempt to gain full control"...in your words) . They're completely different situations, aren't they?

Pizza and lasagna...

Originally Posted by just another ref

Nothing happens during a held ball. When a held ball happens, the ball is dead.

JAR is correct.

But most people describe the action that precedes the judgment of the ball becoming dead as being "during a held ball".

The FIBA rule is that they want the held ball to be enforced, rather than a violation. So their interp is that once a player commits a violation by stepping out of bounds or by returning to his backcourt, all the while two opponents are still tugging at the ball (but not yet untoward), the play is automatically deemed to be a held ball.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

But FIBA people describe the action that precedes the judgment of the ball becoming dead as being "during a held ball".

The FIBA rule is that they want the held ball to be enforced, rather than a violation. So their interp is that once a player commits a violation by stepping out of bounds or by returning to his backcourt, all the while two opponents are still tugging at the ball (but not yet untoward), the play is automatically deemed to be a held ball.

Fixed it for ya.

Sooooo....if one opponent steps OOB while tugging at the ball, even though one player never gained control of the ball and the ball might even subsequently come loose without there ever being dual possession attained, the FIBA call is a held ball even though there never was a held ball.

Got it.

Great logic. Have a held ball even when there never was a held ball.

Gee, I can't figure out why that particular logic has never caught on in the other rulesets.

Stoopid FIBA rulesmaker monkeys.