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-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Inbounds (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/64168-inbounds.html)

CMHCoachNRef Sun Mar 06, 2011 05:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 737033)
This is something to pregame for sure. A cunning coach would be good to tell his player to start dribbling while out of bounds, with the likely result that the defense will be shocked into inactivity over the strangeness of it and the coach will be yelling "Travelling!!!" or some such drivel. And you don't want to be on the crew whose one member doesn't knows its legality and blows it dead.
Quite honestly, we don't pregame this play as it is obvious. They yell travel when the inbounder with a "spot" takes several steps....It may be a misunderstood rule by many a spectator (a coach friend of mine did ask the question earlier this year -- to his credit he did NOT argue with the official, but chose to ask me after the fact) -- but it is understood by my crewmates regardless of the crew.

BktBallRef Sun Mar 06, 2011 05:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 737029)
NFHS: A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats
(intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once
or several times. Neither team control nor player control exists during a dead ball,
throw-in, a jump ball or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.

Webster: To move a ball by repeated light bounces or kicks, as in
basketball or soccer.

It would be nice if the NFHS used their own definitions. How can A1 be dribbling in this case play?

9.2.2 SITUATION D: A1 dribbles the ball on floor on the out-of-bounds area
before making a throw-in. RULING: Legal, a player may bounce the ball on the
out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.
Because the player is IN CONTROL OF THE BALL. That is NOT the same as having player control. A thrower can most definitely dribble the basketball.

BillyMac Sun Mar 06, 2011 05:59pm
Pass The Cracker Jack ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 737158)
Because the player is IN CONTROL OF THE BALL. That is NOT the same as having player control. A thrower can most definitely dribble the basketball.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 736887)
The player can't dribble the ball. A dribble can only be performed by a player in control, and there's no PC or TC during an inbounds pass. The player can bounce the ball.
I'll let you two fight it out. Michael Vick, and I, don't have dogs in this fight.

BktBallRef Sun Mar 06, 2011 06:11pm
Fight out what? You posted the case play.

9.2.2 SITUATION D: A1 dribbles the ball on floor on the out-of-bounds area
before making a throw-in. RULING: Legal.

There is no player control but the player has control of the ball.

A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats or pushes the ball to the floor once or several times.

Player control is rule book defined term.

A thrower does not have player control but he is a player in control of the ball.

There's a difference.

Now, could the NFHS be more clear? Yes, but not describing different situations with similiar terms. But, oh well.

BillyMac Sun Mar 06, 2011 08:17pm
Semantics ???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 737168)
Fight out what? You posted the case play.
This kind of reminds me of debates about endline/baseline, call/request timeouts, etc.

bob jenkins states that "the player can't dribble the ball. A dribble can only be performed by a player in control, and there's no PC or TC during an inbounds pass". The NFHS definition seems to support him, while the Webster definition counts against him. And then there's the NFHS caseplay where a player "dribbles the ball on floor on the out-of-bounds area". By the strict, limited, NFHS definition of dribbling, he's not dribbling, or is he?

So, let's say that a player dribbles the ball on the floor on the out of bounds area behind the baseline and then calls timeout. What's the call?

Nevadaref Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 737168)
Fight out what? You posted the case play.

9.2.2 SITUATION D: A1 dribbles the ball on floor on the out-of-bounds area
before making a throw-in. RULING: Legal.

There is no player control but the player has control of the ball.

A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats or pushes the ball to the floor once or several times.

Player control is rule book defined term.

A thrower does not have player control but he is a player in control of the ball.

There's a difference.

Now, could the NFHS be more clear? Yes, but not describing different situations with similiar terms. But, oh well.
I'll disagree based upon the Rules Fundamental which states that neither the dribbling or traveling rules operate during a throw-in. ;)

I don't care for the wording of the NFHS case play either. I'm with BillyMac on this one.

BillyMac Mon Mar 07, 2011 07:29am
Noah Webster's Blue Backed Speller ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 737228)
I'm with BillyMac on this one.
All I'm saying is that there is an inconsistency between the strict interpretation of the NFHS definition of a dribble, and the use of the word dribble in the caseplay. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Jurassic Referee Mon Mar 07, 2011 07:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 737289)
All I'm saying is that there is an inconsistency between the strict interpretation of the NFHS definition of a dribble, and the use of the word dribble in the caseplay.
And I think that's a myth.

BillyMac Mon Mar 07, 2011 07:43am
That's All Folks ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 737298)
And I think that's a myth.
No. It's a myth-take.

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