Inbounds
 

High school game - With timeout following a basket, a player runs the baseline but takes a nonchalantly dribbles once then passes it to a player who hits a halfcourt shot to win the game. I say this is illegal, since the player dribbles the ball rather than in bounding it directly. Am I correct?

Here it is:
http://www.facebook.com/video/video....73470&comments

You are incorrect. It is perfectly legal to "dribble" the ball during a throw-in. Also, it matters not if it's a designated or undesignated throw-in.

The play that you posted is perfectly legal. The only thing that came even close to being a violation was the thrower stepping inbounds, and that wasn't even that close.

OK, was unsure of this...
 

especially when player can run the baseline. Thanks.

Could a player in this situation bounce pass it to a teammate to inbound, since they would be able to pass the ball across the baseline to another out of bounds player to inbound?

No. That would be a throw-in violation for failing to throw the ball directly inbounds. They would be able to bounce pass to another teammate whom is also out of bounds on the endline during an undesignated spot throw-in.

That is what I meant, thanks.

It was a great ending, but a parent of the opposing team was arrested for confronting an official after the game. I don't know if it was about this play in particular or the entire game. Pretty sad though.

Unfortunately this is all too common these days. I'm glad that someone (official and/or game management) took care of business and had the parent taken care of.

From The Files Of The Mythbusters ...
 

A player inbounding the ball may step on, but not over the line. An inbounding player is allowed to jump or move one or both feet. A player inbounding the ball may move backward as far as the five-second time limit or space allows. A player inbounding the ball may bounce the ball on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throwin. After a goal, or awarded goal, the team not credited with the score shall make the throw-in from any point outside the end line. A team retains this “run the endline” privilege if a timeout is called during the dead ball period after the goal. Any player of the team may make a direct throw-in or may pass the ball along the end line to a teammate outside the boundary line.

Bounce pass is legal to team mate on a run the endline type play. The rule book says you can pass. Read Billy Mac post. It does not limit the type of pass. Therefore, it is not prohibited so it is legal.

For the record, he could dribble and do the two-step even if it was a spot throw-in; so long as he didn't leave the designated three-foot spot.

9.2.2 SITUATION D: A1 dribbles the ball on floor on the out-of-bounds area
before making a throw-in. RULING: Legal, a player may bounce the ball on the
out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

9.2.2 SITUATION A: Thrower A1: (a) causes the ball to carom from the wall
behind him/her, or from the floor out of bounds and then into the court; (b) caroms
the ball from the back of the backboard to a player in the court; or (c) throws
the ball against the side or the front face of the backboard, after which it rebounds
into the hands of A2. RULING: Violation in (a) and (b), since the throw touched
an object out of bounds. The throw-in in (c) is legal. The side and front face of
the backboard are inbounds and, in this specific situation, are treated the same
as the floor inbounds.

The player can't dribble the ball. A dribble can only be performed by a player in control, and there's no PC or TC during an inbounds pass.

The player can bounce the ball.

Knowing that makes the answer to the OP easy.

When On The Official Forum, Use NFHS Definitions ...
 

NFHS: A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats
(intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once
or several times. Neither team control nor player control exists during a dead ball,
throw-in, a jump ball or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.

Webster: To move a ball by repeated light bounces or kicks, as in
basketball or soccer.

It would be nice if the NFHS used their own definitions. How can A1 be dribbling in this case play?

9.2.2 SITUATION D: A1 dribbles the ball on floor on the out-of-bounds area
before making a throw-in. RULING: Legal, a player may bounce the ball on the
out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

PreGame This!
 

This is something to pregame for sure. A cunning coach would be good to tell his player to start dribbling while out of bounds, with the likely result that the defense will be shocked into inactivity over the strangeness of it and the coach will be yelling "Travelling!!!" or some such drivel. And you don't want to be on the crew whose one member doesn't knows its legality and blows it dead.

Quite honestly, we don't pregame this play as it is obvious. They yell travel when the inbounder with a "spot" takes several steps....It may be a misunderstood rule by many a spectator (a coach friend of mine did ask the question earlier this year -- to his credit he did NOT argue with the official, but chose to ask me after the fact) -- but it is understood by my crewmates regardless of the crew.

Because the player is IN CONTROL OF THE BALL. That is NOT the same as having player control. A thrower can most definitely dribble the basketball.

Pass The Cracker Jack ...
 

I'll let you two fight it out. Michael Vick, and I, don't have dogs in this fight.

Fight out what? You posted the case play.

9.2.2 SITUATION D: A1 dribbles the ball on floor on the out-of-bounds area
before making a throw-in. RULING: Legal.

There is no player control but the player has control of the ball.

A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats or pushes the ball to the floor once or several times.

Player control is rule book defined term.

A thrower does not have player control but he is a player in control of the ball.

There's a difference.

Now, could the NFHS be more clear? Yes, but not describing different situations with similiar terms. But, oh well.

Semantics ???
 

This kind of reminds me of debates about endline/baseline, call/request timeouts, etc.

bob jenkins states that "the player can't dribble the ball. A dribble can only be performed by a player in control, and there's no PC or TC during an inbounds pass". The NFHS definition seems to support him, while the Webster definition counts against him. And then there's the NFHS caseplay where a player "dribbles the ball on floor on the out-of-bounds area". By the strict, limited, NFHS definition of dribbling, he's not dribbling, or is he?

So, let's say that a player dribbles the ball on the floor on the out of bounds area behind the baseline and then calls timeout. What's the call?

I'll disagree based upon the Rules Fundamental which states that neither the dribbling or traveling rules operate during a throw-in. ;)

I don't care for the wording of the NFHS case play either. I'm with BillyMac on this one.

Noah Webster's Blue Backed Speller ...
 

All I'm saying is that there is an inconsistency between the strict interpretation of the NFHS definition of a dribble, and the use of the word dribble in the caseplay. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

And I think that's a myth.

That's All Folks ...
 

No. It's a myth-take.

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