Kicking ball

[donj]

I know what rule 9-4 says on kicking the ball, intentionally or unintentionally, but why is it that officials call kicking on the defense when it is unintentionall. Thanks

[BktBallRef]

I'm not sure what the purpose of the question is. If they call it that way, then they've called it incorrectly. It's that simple.

[Hawks Coach]

1) This rule seems to be one that is consistently called incorrectly in my experience - this may be what inspired the question; however. . .

2) This rule is also invoked without knowledge of what a player's true intent was. If you move your foot and hit the ball and cause it to move in another direction, especially on defense, it is going to be called a kick without the official asking what your intent was. If you are asking because this occurred - tough brreak, that's the way it should be called.

But I also see it called on dribbles off the foot, loose balls that bounce off players feet with a clear lack of intent on the part of the player, etc. I hate those calls. They are not kicks, they are ball coming into contact with a foot.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Yes, I see it called incorrectly quite often myself. I don't have my rule book with me for reference but intent is part of the rule; below the knee is another part.

The defense must be moving their feet to stop a pass (intent); the thrown ball must also make contact with the lower part of the leg beginning at the knee.

A pass that simply hits below the knee is not enough - the leg must be moving in an intentional act of defense otherwise it is just a bad pass (and the offense should not be rewarded by returning the ball to them.)

Why it is called wrong has got to be a lack of education or understanding of the rule. But then, dependent upon your viewpoint, we call a lot of things wrong.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Yes, I see it called incorrectly quite often myself. I don't have my rule book with me for reference but intent is part of the rule; below the knee is another part.

A pass that simply hits below the knee is not enough - the leg must be moving in an intentional act of defense otherwise it is just a bad pass (and the offense should not be rewarded by returning the ball to them.)

Why it is called wrong has got to be a lack of education or understanding of the rule.

Actually,Tony,in NFHS rules it is a violation to intentionally kick the ball with the knee,also.Rule 4-29 states "knee OR below" as part of the definition.

The NCAA rule defines a "kicked ball" as being with any part of the leg.

[williebfree]

I have to agree with Hawks on this, the rule is misunderstood by many.

I had a play were A1 grabbed the rebound and made the outlet pass to A2 who is running ahead. A2 never turned around, did not see the ball and it hit him in the back. The ball fell and hit A2's sole of his shoe, glanced off B1's leg and then went out of bounds. Coach B very loudly demands that I award the ball to B, because A2 "kicked the ball".

No coach, that was not an INTENTIONAL act, nor was your player's "kick".

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

The NCAA rule defines a "kicked ball" as being with any part of the leg. [/B]

JR,
I thought I remembered some difference between the men's and women's NCAA rule on kicked ball. I believe hitting the ball with the thigh is okay in one of them.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

JR,
I thought I remembered some difference between the men's and women's NCAA rule on kicked ball. I believe hitting the ball with the thigh is okay in one of them. [/B]

As far as I know,the "kicked ball" rule is the same for NCAA men's and women's rules--deliberate act with any part of the leg.If I'm wrong,I'm sure someone will straighten me out.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
As far as I know,the "kicked ball" rule is the same for NCAA men's and women's rules--deliberate act with any part of the leg.If I'm wrong,I'm sure someone will straighten me out.

You're not wrong; Nevada Ref is.

[Nevadaref]

Thanks for clarifying, Bob.
I just had some blurry memory in a dream-like state... no wait that had nothing to do with basketball!

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
1) This rule seems to be one that is consistently called incorrectly in my experience

I'd like to add one more: the player attempting to receive a pass on the run but juggling the ball in an attempt to gain control called a travel. In the consolation game yesterday, I saw one of those three-step layups where the player didn't get control until just before she shot it. It was called a travel, and I suppose the official could defend the call by deeming the juggling a controlling of the ball, but that would not be accurate.

[ScottParks]

Originally posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

I'd like to add one more: the player attempting to receive a pass on the run but juggling the ball in an attempt to gain control called a travel. In the consolation game yesterday, I saw one of those three-step layups where the player didn't get control until just before she shot it. It was called a travel, and I suppose the official could defend the call by deeming the juggling a controlling of the ball, but that would not be accurate.

Yeah, coach, but the other side also comes in. Tournament games last Friday. Several cases, where a player doesn't cleanly catch the pass, juggles, then either catches and starts a dribble or catches and shoots the ball. Coach is screaming for a travel every time.

On the way by I said "Gotta have control to be a travel" and he looks at me like I'm nuts

After the game, he says that he was told by some very experienced officials that this is always a travel.

I said "Not according to the rule book"

[Hawks Coach]

Unfortunately, I see this one called all the time by officials. It leads to some inaccurate perceptions. Granted it is an out of control play and looks awful, but it isn't a travel.

[zebraman]

I agree with you coach. The "kicked ball" and "travel without control" are called by my varsity partners way more times than I care to admit. Calls like those are why I am so convinced that a firm knowledge (and constant study) of the rules is the most important thing a ref must possess. Many "veteran refs" feel that they have the rules down pat and haven't cracked a book open for years.

Z

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by ScottParks
Several cases, where a player doesn't cleanly catch the pass, juggles, then either catches and starts a dribble or catches and shoots the ball. Coach is screaming for a travel every time.

On the way by I said "Gotta have control to be a travel" and he looks at me like I'm nuts

I had this play tonight and no-called it. Player never had control. Had to T a defender who felt compelled to "comment" on my abilities.

Chuck